NOW I KNOW THE MUSIC

[Bird]

Joyce, first off "Bush Hog" is a brand name; the generic is a brush hog, rotary cutter, or shredder./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

And yes, I think most of them have a "stump jumper". It looks like a pan; round on my Howse, oval on the Bush Hog, and I'm not sure of the shape on the others. I don't think I'd want a brush hog without a stump jumper, but don't really know for sure whether one shape is better than the other. I have a tendency to suspect that Bush Hog's oval pan is better but couldn't prove it.

The things to look for are hp rating for the gear box, thickness or weight of the deck, size of the blades (thickness, width, etc.), and blade tip speed. Chain guards are a definite plus; front and rear. Those big blades can knock rocks, chunks of wood, and other debris out from under there with enough force to do a lot of damage to anyone or anything within 100 feet or more.

Bird

 

[kerr]

Good luck with the 2710.Read your manuals,have your dealer run through all emplement removel and installation procedures with ya and your top hand. I hope them K-boter jammies itch! JUST KIDDIN!!!!!

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bird,

I noticed in your bio that you have a 1999 2710 with the brush hog (thanks for the correction on brush hog v. bush hog. I think this term is one of those 'local' terms...but I'm going with 'brush hog' now.)

A few days ago, I had 'decided' on the 2710, with the 60"MMM so that I could get the grass catcher without an additional motor to power it. Part of this decision was weighing how much I intend to use each implement, then planning accordingly. Focus on the most used first, then get what will work best. For me, in the summer, I will use the mmm the most.

But I still want to use a brush hog, and my husband was suggesting I look into a 6' /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif. I guess he thought that because our old 52 Farmall has a 5' bar on it, why not get bigger if we can. From everything that I was reading, it looked like I could easily go with the 5' rotarty cutter. I just needed to break the bad news of that one less foot to my husband.

Then...I talked to the guys at Carver Equipment (just exploring prices), and he (Al Murray) said that I would want to go no bigger than the 5'. In fact, that I should go with the 4'. HEEEELLLLLLLLLPP!!!!! /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

Please tell me what size rotary cutter that you have actually been USING, brand name and such. And please add, if you think it is enough for however you use it.

Anyone else actually own a 2710 and use a brush hog out there???? Please add your thoughts....no: facts!

PS/ I have been talking to the dealer who actually has a 2710 in stock. My first hint at price negotiations was simply noticing that he was quoting list prices on the implements. Before I had a chance to go anywhere with that, he said that he did not include frieght and assembly charges. I was feeling like this was ridiculous, but let it go. It was evidently his first chance to me, to make it sound like he would not move on the quoted prices. This dealer actually has the lowest prices of the three around here (within an hour or two).

The tractor education has been fun...I HATE the prospect of price negotiation. Just not my cup of tea...

Joyce...the damsel feeling distressed again /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

 

[glennmac]

Joyce, I use a 5' Woods medium duty MD160 brush hog, which is heavier and heavier duty than the 5' Woods Brushbull I recommended. My 2910 handles it just fine, even in some very difficult and thick brush. A 2710 could handle it, too, and therefore could easily handle a light duty 5' cutter. I think a 6' cutter would be too big unless all you were ever cutting was short grass. Carver is being very conservative.

 

[Bird]

Joyce, the B2710 "Operator's Manual", in its Implement Limitations section calls for a rotary cutter (the other popular name for a brush hog) of no more than 48" width and 500# in weight. So you can understand a dealer wanting to stay with the manufacturer. However, the fact is that Kubota is very conservative, and I can understand that, too, because if you start trying to mow down 2" to 3" trees or saplings with too big a mower, they have an unhappy customer. So, I'm currently using a Howse 500; it's a 60" wide, 600#, "economy" model (in other words, light duty). It's quite adequate for my use, but definitely not the quality of a Bush Hog, Landpride, Woods, etc. Personally, I would most definitely not want one that was not wider than the outside tread of my rear tires. And in fact, I had a Bush Hog SQ48 (48") before for my B7100 and traded it off for the wider mower when I got the B2710. So, in my opinion, the 5' model is the "right" size for a B2710/2910. There are times when doing light mowing (like my own pasture) that I wish I had a 6' one, but it really would be a little too big if you get into any heavy stuff.

Bird

 

[Timd]

Joyce -

I just took delivery of a 2910 with a 60" MMM. Haven't mowed yet because I wanted to do a good Carnauba wax job on the inside of the mower so the grass won't stick to it as much. The 60" mower is offset slightly to the left, so there's about a foot of mower beyond the tire track and it should be able to mow a decent radius. My first mow is this weekend. If you aren't too far up down east and ever get to seacoast NH you could try a test drive (email in my profile). I got the 60" rather than 72" because of clearances in both my shop (where I'll garage the tractor) and between trees. People sometimes overlook the fact that the width of the mower is bigger than the width of the cut. My 60" MMM is 72" wide, and the 72" is 80-something" wide. Something to think about when evaluating tree and storage clearance. I pulled the MMM this morning before work to wax it and I can tell you it's a piece of work to get off and on.

Another clearance issue you may not have thought about is the height of the ROPS bar. When my tractor was delivered on the ramp truck the driver pruned a half-dozen branches with my tractor's ROPS as he drove in! So I bought a power pole pruner and will have to cut every branch lower than 8' off the ground to mow what I used to just drive right under.

I am also looking at 4 and 5 foot Woods Brushbulls for a fall purchase. Union Farm Equipment has pretty good prices on these http://www.unionfarmequip.com , click Woods, then View Pricelist. Their prices on the BB48 and BB60 are a couple hundred less than my local NH dealer. If you are just doing field mowing you could forego the slip clutch and save a couple hundred there. Does ME have sales tax on agricultural implements?

Woods has a web page at http://www.woodsonline.com but for some reason they have no info about the 2001 line of Brushbull cutters.

Timd

 

[kerr]

J.D. 4300 pulls a 6 footer.

 

[glennmac]

Joyce,

How many acres are you going to finish mow? How many acres are you going to rough cut (brush hog)? Are you going to be rough cutting only grass or woody brush also?

Assembly and delivery charges are BS. Ask him how many unassembled and undelivered tractors he sells. Dont think I like him already.

If you want a no-hassle, fair-deal discounted price on a Kubota and all your implements, with no sales tax, you could buy everything you want in Connecticut, but you would then have to arrange for your own delivery.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Tim,

I just wrote a lengthy post, and discovered that I could not send it grrr. Earlier today, I tried to register myself, and did not choose a password, thinking it was 'optional'. Now I have to wait to be sent one, and cannot use 'Joyce' as username. so....I'll give Joyce H. a try.

What I TRIED to post: congratulations on your 2910! I keep going back and forth between the 2710 and the 2910, but I am certain about a 60" mmm primarily because the grass catcher is very important to me. You can get grass catchers with the 72", but it requires a separate motor to run it. Too much for me. I also like the idea of being able to move around in slightly smaller spaces with the slightly smaller deck.

I've never heard that the mmm deck could be adjusted on the left side! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif That is really /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif. Did your dealer suggest this to you, or has your tractor 101 homework taken you further than my own? Please, please pass on some more details!!

The Union dealer is the dealer I have spent the most time with, and they have better prices than the other two dealers in the area. But I am not sold on doing business with them.

Atkinson is very close to the route I take when I visit in Mass., and would seriously consider a tractor visitation if you had the grass catcher too. I have driven the 2910, but I have never seen the grass catcher...though you have my curiosity up about the adjustment on the mmm deck!

You did not mention where you got your tractor, or for that matter, how much you paid. You realize that some of us in the 'buying market' really feel a need to know.../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Joyce H.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Glennmac,

Joyce H. is still 'Joyce'. See post to Tim, same date as this... And what is a 'cookie' anyway. I kind of like chocolate chip, but I have a feeling that that's not what it is.

I wish I could say how much I finish mow in terms of acres, but because it is 'pieces and parts' in nature, I cannot figure that. Even timing what I do is difficult, considering length of grass, and time out for spreading my mulch. However, I borrowed my mother's JD 18hp lawn tractor for the last mowing, and it has a meter on it. I used it for 1 1/2 hours, keeping in mind that I did not do my whole area, and that it has been drier than ever around here. Little to cut, and I did not do every area that I usually do when it actually rains. Does that help on the finish mow?

As for rough cut, brush hog, rotary mow....you know... this is the 20 to 25 acres that I have referred to that the farmers have been 'robbing' me with. They have done their mowing for the year, and so there is not tall grass/hay anymore. If someone else were to hay this, and I doubt I will let this man anymore unless he cuts a whole new deal..maybe even 'rent'...who knows, then I would just keep up the perimeter areas with it. This includes going along the edges of 2 1/2 swails (or is that swales...).

Knowing myself as I do, if I had the tools to cut myself, I would probably try to cut the whole thing a few times in the summer. And if I had the lovely whole tractor deal, I would likely finish mow more, just for the neat quality mulch. I do that now with my 12hp, in a bit by bit as needed fashion./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

As for the quality of cut. The fields are in very good condition with regard to what is growing on them. Golden rod is the toughest stem out there in the course of the summer. Along the edges in some areas, some kind of berry brush (pucker brush as it is called locally), is usually trying to grow into the area. Maybe a few small poplar sprouts, but they don't last long due to regular maintenance, and are therefore never very large.

So...who is the great dealer in Conn.? My sister lives in Douglas (southern MA, and my brother owns equipment large enough to haul his excavator and other such toys...) Maybe I should look into this. By the time I am done 'looking into' all these avenues, the 2710 and 2910 will be antique models /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif. How much do they typically sell off of list? You may have mentioned this in another post, but I do not remember.

Joyce H.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Joyce H.,
I'm in MI but just received a couple of quotes on the 2910 w/R4s and L402 loader. They were both very close and essentially were allowing a 16 % discount from list. List on the 2910 w/ r4s was quoted as $16,594 and the fel was quoted as $3398($19,992 total list). The price to me was $16, 842 for 2910 and fel b/4 MI sales tax. I also got an out of state delivered quote w/ no sales tax that was very near the same as the MI quotes b/4 transportation which,after delivery figured back into price,would have saved me $400- $500 due to the6% MI sales tax. I ended up purchasing a L3010 from one of the same above MI dealers at a 21% discount from list. I figured for about another $800 I might as well go with the larger tractor. I do not know if upon futher negotiation the spread would have become more favorable to the 2910 or not. I just decided on the L3010. If the 2910 could be had for the same 21% discount($15800) then the 2910/3010 difference would have been $1850 and that might have made me think a little harder on the matter. Bottom line, I would be looking for a price to you b/4 tax of between $15,800 and $16,800 on a 2910 with fel.

 

[glennmac]

Joyce,

If you know what you want and are serious, call Robert Wolff of Woodbury Tractor (203-266-4845). Tell him you are a TBN member and that I referred you to him. He should give you a fair discount on all the Kubota stuff and the other implements you need. Since you are a haul away, I would expect you would have to pay extra for delivery or provide your own transportation.

Not to muddy the Kennebec, but if you are going to be mowing 20 acres or so, you may want a much larger mower(at least 84"), which will require a larger tractor. Which also means that the tractor wont be able to do pirouettes around your quercus alba.

 

[Timd]

Joyce -

2710 vs 2910: I went 2910 because one of my primary chores will be brushcutting the tangled mess of scrub woods in front of my house that used to be a meadow 20 years ago. So the extra PTO horsepower was important to me. Another thing was that I love the seat on the 2910, as glennmac said, "gentler on the keister".

I also want a grasscatcher but it was a stretch even to buy the tractor, so that's a future maybe. I don't want to load up on implements until I have time to build an storage shed. For now loader, MMM, and rotary cutter are the essentials. I did get a bunch of add ons: block heater, HD alternator, front and rear work lights, 4-way loader valve, FEL tooth and cutting bars, logging hooks, and clamp-on loader forks.

Adjusting MMM deck: the deck isn't adjustable. All MMM's have a discharge chute on the right side, which takes up a foot of space, and there's no mower blades under there. So the actual cutting area of the mower is from the left side of the deck to the discharge chute. But the entire assembly is centered under the tractor. So my 60" MMM is actually 72" wide with discharge chute. Center that under a 54" wide tractor and you have 9" of mower cut beyond the wheels on the left and no cut beyond the wheels on the right. So you can mow fairly close around the house because you'll be mowing with the discharge pointing away.

Where I got it and what I paid: I could tell you, but then Steve Carver would have to kill me!
(Joke, Carver requires you to sign a non-disclosure agreement and not reveal pricing).

Pricing in general: I was in the market for a 2710 a year ago and put it off when the stock market tanked. This year I decided I couldn't live without one anymore. I was spending 8 hours a week mowing my place. Both times I got quotes from my local dealer and 3 internet dealers. Both times the average internet price was around 2K less than the local dealer. The local dealer couldn't build me a tractor (_any_ tractor) in less than a month, and didn't seem real interested in my business. One internet source (tractorsmart.com) couldn't quite configure the tractor the way I wanted, and wouldn't weld logging hooks on the bucket because of liability concerns. Another never got back to me with a quote. Steve Carver's guys got my tractor built in a week, configured the way I wanted it, and delivered in two. There were some minor problems which they straightened out, but the tractor was indeed "work ready".

So should you dare buy from an internet source? Depends on how comfortable you are with machinery and fixing things. An example: a hole in the antiscalp wheel assembly for my MMM was drilled off center at the factory. This meant I couldn't turn the wheel sideways and made the MMM a real bear to remove. Would be convenient to call the local dealer and say "fix it". But I just drilled it a little oversize and it's fine now.

One question I asked which you didn't answer was does ME have sales tax on tractors and implements. A 6% sales tax adds $1200 to the price of a $20,000 tractor. None of the internet dealers charges sales tax on out-of-state deliveries. A non issue for me (no sales tax in NH) but something to consider.

I agree with glennmac that you should contact Robert at Woodbury Tractor in CT. He was the dealer who didn't give me a quote this time around but that's probably because he's a one-man shop and is too busy building tractors to read his email! He gave me a very good quote on a 2710 last year and raised a number of issues I hadn't thought about (like a 4-way loader valve). I know that he's delivered tractors from Woodbury to Ipswich, MA, so maybe your relatives with the trailer could meet him halfway.

Timd

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Tim,

I forgot to answer the sales tax question: Maine has a 5%. It makes me wonder, if you buy from a place that does not have sales tax, who would end up finding out that you did not pay it, and how would that happen? Probably someone who I would go to in the future for service?

I started my negotiations yesterday, basically asking two places, if they could do better than the quoted price, considering I was lining myself up for a few implements. One place was willing to come down 500.00 (Union Tractor) on the tractor, but said he was not willing to move on the implements at all (he is pricing list on those), because of freight and assembly that he is not adding to my price. I DID ask how many unassembled tractors he has sold, but he thought it was a ridiculous question. I pretty much said I needed him to do better, and he said he couldn't. I mentioned comparitive shopping and I think he said 'fine'. All of this made me wonder if I should have been talking to the owner or something. I'm too new at this...

I took the suggestion to call Woodbury in Conn. I spoke with Bob, and he was very nice. Seemed like a VERY straight shooting guy. He came in at 21,500 for: 2910, 60"MMM, grass catcher and front snowblower. This was about 1,200.00 lower than Union. The Woodbury price included delivery, but I forgot to ask about taxes.

All of this leaves me with maybe trying to go back to Union with a counter offer, but he was so definate, that I'm not sure. And yes, I have gone back to wanting the 2910 over the 2710. My husband really preferred the extra horse power, and since the frame was the same exact size, it was fine with me. I had thought he might not want to pay the extra money for the extra horse power.

I also need to think seriously about how buying from afar will affect my relationship with a service place when I need it.

I didn't know that Carver had folks sign nondisclosure papers. Will I be upsetting Bob at Woodbury by laying out his quote on the internet?????????

I'm not sure if I am answering all questions this time, but I'm on my way to Mass. in about a half hour, so I have to collect my little one and get going.

If I was really smart, I would send my husband in to do the negotiations. The homework and education part has been enlightening and fun. My husband is the businessman and knows negotiating so much better than me..... I'm off....

Joyce

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Glennmac,

No! You cannot muddy the waters, but I have gone back to the 2910 because my husband preferred and was willing to pay the extra. Frame size the same, so it was okay with me. I am not willing to sacrifice the pirouttes.

See post to Tim on contact with Bob in Woodbury.

I'm leaving for MA, but can you help me figure out why I can't use the name I tried to register under: Joyce? I understood the password to be optional, and it seems like I have to wait for the password to be sent to me. I thought I tried to register several days ago? I'm too new at all of this to figure out where I might be going wrong.

Be back around Monday or so. Thanks for any help you can offer on this non tractor issue /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.

Joyce

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: NOW I KNOW THE MUSIC-Att. Muhammad

Joyce,

Send Muhammad {chief cook, bottle washer and owner of this great website /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif} a private e-mail with your proposed "Screen name" and "password"...

He will take care of you and get you set up.

How far are your relatives from Albany, NY area... we have a few Kubota dealer's that would probably "fight" for your business, especially if you're gonna transport it home. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: NOW I KNOW THE MUSIC-Att. Muhammad

Joyce,

I forgot Muhammad's email address...

muhammad@tractorbynet.com

 

[glennmac]

Damsel Joyce,

I assume you cant register Joyce as a password because someone else already has taken that name as their password. That's why I chose glennmac on the spur of the moment instead of Glenn. I think all you have to do is pick something that the server accepts.

You are getting a good deal from Bob. Consider how much he is "eating" in the way of delivery charges. He has already included in his price the delivery cost (and assembly cost) of all the hardware to his shop in CT, as any dealer has to do. He then is going to drive from CT to wherever you are in Maine. I would estimate that this "second delivery" is worth his hourly shop rate (approx. $55) times the number of travel hours (probably 15 or so), plus his gas, plus maybe an overnight stay in a cheap motel. If you get a quote from Carver, I expect the delivery charge from NC to you will be in the range of $1800-$2000.

I assume Bob's quote excludes Maine sales tax, which you have to add in to the total package for any dealer from whom you purchase in Maine--ie, at least $1000 at a 5% rate. As to tax, send me an email or a private message when you register and I'll give explain it to you.

I chose the 2910 because I thought the extra power might be useful in the unknown amount of brushcutting and rough mowing I was going to do on my back 8 acres, and because I liked the seat a lot better. The extendable link arms were irrelevant to me because I use Freedom Hitches (which I highly recommend), but they say the extendable links are very helpful if you insist on wrestling with a 3ph. For me, it was clearly the right decision.

You sure you dont want a loader?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Joyce,

Congrats on getting your good name back.../w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

 

[Joyce]

Re: NOW I KNOW THE MUSIC-Att. Muhammad

John,

My brother with the big truck toys lives in North central Mass., but I have not approached the idea of hauling for me with him yet. I was thinking of having my husband just go into one of the dealerships around here and just do his negotiating thing. He is so much better at this than me, but he seems to want me to land the deal since I have done all the homework. Maybe he wants me to get better at the negotiating. Personally, I just want a fair deal, and I want to get it over with. This haggling business is far too time consuming.

But...if I were crazy enough to call yet another place...where do YOU suggest in the Albany area? I could be mistaken, but I'm starting to think you folks are toying with me..../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif.

It seems that I have successfully registered, but for some reason, anything that I put in my bio was rejected. Not so encouraging. Said something about bio too long, but I know it was not. Some other problem that I can't figure out yet.

Joyce