NX6010 quick loss of drive power

[Overtaxed]

So, I've been having a strange problem with my 6010, it's very random, but it seems to be related to load/PTO.

Starting off, the symptom is that sometimes the hydro "jumps". It's hard to describe, but it's not smooth, like I'll go front/back and it jerks a little before it starts to go backwards. It also feels like I'm missing power sometimes heading up hills, but that could be my imagination. It's also a little noisy sometimes when I turn the power steering hard over, and move the FEL.

Long story short, I think something is up with the hydro system. Now, here's the really strange thing, I have no idea if I'm low/high/right on hydro fluid. Sometimes I pull the stick, there's nothing on it. Other times, I pull the stick and it's overflowing (like actually comes out the check hole. And other times, I pull it and it's dead in the middle.

So, let's start with the easy stuff, how the heck are you supposed to check the hydro fluid on this thing? FEL on the ground, 3pt all the way down and ice cold? Warmed up? FEL and 3PT all the way up? Running? Not running? I've tried just about every combination and gotten a different result, so if this is a "low hydro fluid" problem, I need to figure out 'how low' and put some in there. Now, the other complication, the fluid in there is a mix of Tractor Supply (the universal stuff that's on the Kioti cross reference) and Kioti; I had a leak in one of my remotes and had to top it off and, on top of that, I changed out the filters about 20 hours ago and added fluid to make up for whatever I lost. All told, I have maybe 4 gallons of the Tractor Supply fluid in there and the rest is whatever Kioti put in after the first service.

Any suggestions? Dump it all and start over, putting in the correct amount? Just top it off (to where though??). Any idea why I'm seeing this behavior?

Thanks!

 

[ritcheyvs]

I would start by filling the hydro fluid, at least to the low mark, with it cold and setting level. If the level jumps all over the place, maybe you are entraining air (bubbles) in the fluid. That would be my guess. If the level is too low you might be sucking air into the system which would cause many odd behaviors. This is a generic answer; I din't have a 6010.

 

[Overtaxed]

I would start by filling the hydro fluid, at least to the low mark, with it cold and setting level. If the level jumps all over the place, maybe you are entraining air (bubbles) in the fluid. That would be my guess. If the level is too low you might be sucking air into the system which would cause many odd behaviors. This is a generic answer; I din't have a 6010.

That's a reasonable guess, I do hear a "sucking sound" when I open the fill hole on the hydro when the tractor is running. So I wonder if it's "foaming up" a bit and then making it look like there's more in there.

But, starting point, tractor should be ice cold, sitting level to check hydro fluid? Sounds like that's what your suggesting, and what I'll take as a first step. Does loader/3PT make any difference?

Thank you!

 

[ritcheyvs]

Loader makes no difference. 3-point makes very little difference, but best if full down.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Loader makes no difference. 3-point makes very little difference, but best if full down.

Ha! I've got a video where I set my loader lower to get oil into the transmission to keep going up a hill blowing snow. I didn't know it at the time, but a bladder seal had blown on the left lift ram and I was leaking oil out of the loader all the while it was in the air. Winter time, so no dust to call attention to it. Anyway, using the PTO blowing snow backing up a hill and I came to a stop, you see me cycle the plow side to side, but that didn't send more oil into the tank and it wasn't until I dropped the loader down a bit that raised the tank oil level just enough for the HST start moving in reverse again. The magic of video editing doesn't show the time spent out of frame pouring in three gallons of J20 hydro/trans oil between cuts. The incident happens at 3:45 in the video.

So, I've been having a strange problem with my 6010, it's very random, but it seems to be related to load/PTO.

Starting off, the symptom is that sometimes the hydro "jumps". It's hard to describe, but it's not smooth, like I'll go front/back and it jerks a little before it starts to go backwards. It also feels like I'm missing power sometimes heading up hills, but that could be my imagination. It's also a little noisy sometimes when I turn the power steering hard over, and move the FEL.

Long story short, I think something is up with the hydro system. Now, here's the really strange thing, I have no idea if I'm low/high/right on hydro fluid. Sometimes I pull the stick, there's nothing on it. Other times, I pull the stick and it's overflowing (like actually comes out the check hole. And other times, I pull it and it's dead in the middle.

So, let's start with the easy stuff, how the heck are you supposed to check the hydro fluid on this thing? FEL on the ground, 3pt all the way down and ice cold? Warmed up? FEL and 3PT all the way up? Running? Not running? I've tried just about every combination and gotten a different result, so if this is a "low hydro fluid" problem, I need to figure out 'how low' and put some in there. Now, the other complication, the fluid in there is a mix of Tractor Supply (the universal stuff that's on the Kioti cross reference) and Kioti; I had a leak in one of my remotes and had to top it off and, on top of that, I changed out the filters about 20 hours ago and added fluid to make up for whatever I lost. All told, I have maybe 4 gallons of the Tractor Supply fluid in there and the rest is whatever Kioti put in after the first service.

Any suggestions? Dump it all and start over, putting in the correct amount? Just top it off (to where though??). Any idea why I'm seeing this behavior?

Thanks!

Check the dipstick, fill until the middle.

Your loss of power it sounds like the engine is running too cold which I started to experience in the fall around 35 degree F. I had the same sypthoms but installed a warmer operating T-stat and suddenly I had a much more powerful machine.

The windows didn't fog up, because the heat was hot. I could use high gear in the cold because the hydro oil warmed up to operating temp. And instead of regenerating every 8-12 hours, I went to the expected 30-40 hour regeneration time. As I've now extensively tested, a Stant 48808 thermostat is a drop in replacement. Works great in the summer under full load, warms up quickly and maintains operating temperature in the winter耀omething a stock NX could not do. Make sure you have a spare T-stat gasket. I use the mushy blue gasket material to make my own.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Ha! I've got a video where I set my loader lower to get oil into the transmission to keep going up a hill blowing snow. I didn't know it at the time, but a bladder seal had blown on the left lift ram and I was leaking oil out of the loader all the while it was in the air. Winter time, so no dust to call attention to it. Anyway, using the PTO blowing snow backing up a hill and I came to a stop, you see me cycle the plow side to side, but that didn't send more oil into the tank and it wasn't until I dropped the loader down a bit that raised the tank oil level just enough for the HST start moving in reverse again. The magic of video editing doesn't show the time spent out of frame pouring in three gallons of J20 hydro/trans oil between cuts. The incident happens at 3:45 in the video.

Check the dipstick, fill until the middle.

Your loss of power it sounds like the engine is running too cold which I started to experience in the fall around 35 degree F. I had the same sypthoms but installed a warmer operating T-stat and suddenly I had a much more powerful machine.

The windows didn't fog up, because the heat was hot. I could use high gear in the cold because the hydro oil warmed up to operating temp. And instead of regenerating every 8-12 hours, I went to the expected 30-40 hour regeneration time. As I've now extensively tested, a Stant 48808 thermostat is a drop in replacement. Works great in the summer under full load, warms up quickly and maintains operating temperature in the winter耀omething a stock NX could not do. Make sure you have a spare T-stat gasket. I use the mushy blue gasket material to make my own.

All this from the person that had his warranty VOIDED.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

All this from the person that had his warranty VOIDED.

As a tech with tuning experience what I determined with my NX6010 was the engine was running too cold. I found the problem is the by-pass in the stock thermostat was too weak. This weakness allowed too much coolant to by-pass the thermostat preventing the motor from warming up or maintaining a warm operating temperature in colder climates. The thermostat by-pass acted as if engine was running as if it has no thermostat at all. Solution: a smaller bypass gallery or a stronger bypass spring.

Here is the video that led me to investigating and addressing the problem because I literally had a useless peice of equipment and my then brand new dealer had no idea what to do.

 

[coobie]

As a tech with tuning experience what I determined with my NX6010 was the engine was running too cold. I found the problem is the by-pass in the stock thermostat was too weak. This weakness allowed too much coolant to by-pass the thermostat preventing the motor from warming up or maintaining a warm operating temperature in colder climates. The thermostat by-pass acted as if engine was running as if it has no thermostat at all. Solution: a smaller bypass gallery or a stronger bypass spring.

Here is the video that led me to investigating and addressing the problem because I literally had a useless peice of equipment and my then brand new dealer had no idea what to do.

And the crying continues..LOL..2 words "SELL IT" and quit your bitchen..I often wonder with ALL of your VAST tuning experience WHY kioti has not hired you as one of there TOP techs??LAFFIN..

 

[DieselBound]

And the crying continues..LOL..2 words "SELL IT" and quit your bitchen..I often wonder with ALL of your VAST tuning experience WHY kioti has not hired you as one of there TOP techs??LAFFIN..

Huh? This was something that occurred several years ago. He's stating what he did to rectify an issue he had- he's not complaining now (about that issue).

 

[Overtaxed]

Interesting. I wasn't thinking about operating temp, and I don't think this is my problem because I'm running it in the warm weather, but that demo you give of high gear dying out, my tractor does that too. I can't climb even a very moderate hill in high, it will go on a perfect flat, but, up anything like a hill, it'll just die out and stall (if I hold the pedal full down). Interesting. The hydro oil mystery remains, pulled the stick the other day after some brush cutting, almost dry. Went back a day later, it was overflowing from the hole. Very confused. I'm half tempted to dump it all and just put in the "right" amount, per the manual, and see where that leaves me.

 

[DieselBound]

I'm wanting to say that there was another person (in these forums) having a similar problem. I know that my NX will feel a little hesitant when it's cold: but, as you note, you're not operating in a cold environment at this time.

About the fluid level, I pull the stick, wipe it off, stick it back in and take it back out to take a reading. I always see a big discrepancy. I seem to recall reading that JD had some additive that would color the fluid in order to make it easier to see levels: JD has been at it a long time in which case for them to come out with something (or recommend?) would tend to suggest that they see this as an issue.

 

[LouNY]

Interesting. I wasn't thinking about operating temp, and I don't think this is my problem because I'm running it in the warm weather, but that demo you give of high gear dying out, my tractor does that too. I can't climb even a very moderate hill in high, it will go on a perfect flat, but, up anything like a hill, it'll just die out and stall (if I hold the pedal full down). Interesting. The hydro oil mystery remains, pulled the stick the other day after some brush cutting, almost dry. Went back a day later, it was overflowing from the hole. Very confused. I'm half tempted to dump it all and just put in the "right" amount, per the manual, and see where that leaves me.

I'm not familiar with your tractor at all, but I have a question.
Your tractor is a hydro, is the foot pedal actually the gear selector, ie. the further down the higher the gear?
I hear of the linked pedals where the throttle and hydro gear pedal appear to increase the engine rpm as well as the "gearing",
is this thru the computer or mechanic linkage. You mention that it stalls on a hill with the pedal all the way down, if you disable the
link function and use your hand throttle to increase the engine rpm to pto and just use half down or less on the foot pedal does it climb your hill?

 

[Overtaxed]

Probably the easiest way to think of the hydro pedal (assuming linked mode is off) is like a clutch. In reverse, of course, but the harder you push the hydro down, the less the clutch "slips". Until when it's full down, it's like the clutch is all the way up and you're totally linked to the gear. So, for my issue, imagine if you had a car with 3 gears, all designed to be used from a stop, but with each designed to go a different top speed. The issue I see, and it looks like Eric saw, if I engage gear 3 (high), even with the engine at full power (gas pedal to the floor, in the car example), I can never fully let my foot off the clutch. The engine doesn't have the power to fully engage gear 3. Not sure if that helps or hurts for explaining it, but it's another way to think of it.

 

[Overtaxed]

I'm wanting to say that there was another person (in these forums) having a similar problem. I know that my NX will feel a little hesitant when it's cold: but, as you note, you're not operating in a cold environment at this time.

About the fluid level, I pull the stick, wipe it off, stick it back in and take it back out to take a reading. I always see a big discrepancy. I seem to recall reading that JD had some additive that would color the fluid in order to make it easier to see levels: JD has been at it a long time in which case for them to come out with something (or recommend?) would tend to suggest that they see this as an issue.

Thanks for the reply, but I have a question. There's "I can't see the level" which an additive will help with, and then there's the "big discrepancy" issue. I'm having the latter, it sounds like you are as well. Yeah, it's hard to see the hydro level, that's a PITA too, but I can see it, just need to look hard. Adding something to the fluid would be great to make that easier. But, what's up with the discrepancy? If we assuming I'm seeing the level correctly on the stick, why is it bone dry some days and literally blowing out the hole other times? That's the part that has me really perplexed.

 

[LouNY]

Probably the easiest way to think of the hydro pedal (assuming linked mode is off) is like a clutch. In reverse, of course, but the harder you push the hydro down, the less the clutch "slips". Until when it's full down, it's like the clutch is all the way up and you're totally linked to the gear. So, for my issue, imagine if you had a car with 3 gears, all designed to be used from a stop, but with each designed to go a different top speed. The issue I see, and it looks like Eric saw, if I engage gear 3 (high), even with the engine at full power (gas pedal to the floor, in the car example), I can never fully let my foot off the clutch. The engine doesn't have the power to fully engage gear 3. Not sure if that helps or hurts for explaining it, but it's another way to think of it.

I am not a hydro fan, the few I have operated did not behave that way;
A modern gear tractor will have a 2 or 3 speed range box and a 4 or 5 speed transmission;
The hydro will have the same range box to select a range, with the foot pedal being the transmission, the amount of pedal depression corresponds to the gear selection, just partly down would be first, halfway 2nd or 3rd and all the way down is 4th or high gear, so with the pedal all the way down you are in effect in the highest gear and hi range so it would stall.

 

[coobie]

Huh? This was something that occurred several years ago. He's stating what he did to rectify an issue he had- he's not complaining now (about that issue).

Defend him anyway you wish..He still whines about his Kioti warranty issue every chance he gets.

 

[DieselBound]

Defend him anyway you wish..He still whines about his Kioti warranty issue every chance he gets.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm just stating the facts. Yes, Eric does mention the incident. Don't mean he's whining. If you have an issue with him then that's your beef.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Interesting. I wasn't thinking about operating temp, and I don't think this is my problem because I'm running it in the warm weather, but that demo you give of high gear dying out, my tractor does that too. I can't climb even a very moderate hill in high, it will go on a perfect flat, but, up anything like a hill, it'll just die out and stall (if I hold the pedal full down). Interesting. The hydro oil mystery remains, pulled the stick the other day after some brush cutting, almost dry. Went back a day later, it was overflowing from the hole. Very confused. I'm half tempted to dump it all and just put in the "right" amount, per the manual, and see where that leaves me.

In my case the engine was running too cold to regenerate and slowly plugged the diesel particulate filter. In the video I shared, my gauge shows the engine is warm but it wasn't warm enough to pull a regen cycle and the inability to regenerate lead to a loss of power at higher rpm due to the exhaust slowly becoming more and more restricted. If your engine feels as if it has more power after the next regeneration cycle, then you may be sharing the problem I found with my tractor as the DPF should normally not become so restricted as to reduce power. In my case, after a whole summer of use, I didn't realize that I had effectively been running the whole time with a restriction in power. My tractor was a whole new machine after I made the T-stat swap. Anyway, something for you to keep in mind if the issue persists.

Hydro oil level wise, hydro oil will expand when warm, but if you're in the middle of dip stick when cold, you should be okay when colder or warmer. My tractor will also overflow when warm when set to the middle of the dipstick when cold and when really, really cold, it still registers on the bottom of the dipstick. Hope that helps you puzzle out your dipstick.

If your dispstick level goes down when the engine warms up, then there is a problem with oil returning to the tank, which in this case is our transmissions.

 

[AWSubie]

Overtaxed: If you're still having the issue; have you tried the air bleeding procedure from the manual? The manual states to raise the front wheels off of the ground (the manual says use a winch but that's probably because not everyone has a FEL) and turn the steering wheel lock to lock a few times. Lower the wheels and then raise and lower the 3 point five or six times with no load on the 3 point. Check the fluid level and add any if necessary. Raise the engine speed to 1500 rpm wait a few seconds and then move the tractor forward and backward slowly. If the backing and forward motion is smooth all the air should be removed from the system. I figure it can't hurt to try...