NX6010 suction side hydro leak

[justman777]

Threepoint, I just sent a PM to YLee to give him some info he could convey to our dealer. We both got the same dealer.

I managed to work on the NX a bit last night to do some testing. The first test was to bypass the filter head assembly to see if it was causing the issues I'm experiencing. I made a video of the results this morning. If anyone chooses to watch it, I apologize for me rambling on. It was early, and I'd gotten up early and went to bed late the night before:

Kioti NX451 Filter Bypass - YouTube

In the first video, I have two pieces of clear tubing installed---one at the typical tubing location between the pump and filter assembly, and the other in place of the filter assembly. I noticed nothing immediate---meaning there were no bubbles, no discernible movement of fluid...nothing. That's what I would expect to see if it were operating as intended. However, I started noticing bubbles very shortly afterwards. This indicates to me something further down the line is putting air in the system and filling the sump with air filled fluid (bubbles). When the sump gets full of foamy fluid, it starts going through the suction line, filter housing, etc.

I need a favor from someone please! If the first video, I remarked about the sound coming from the fill port of the sump. Sounds to me like it's spraying fluid in there, which may be causing the fluid to foam. If anyone has a few minutes, could you please post a similar video of your fill port and sump? I'd like to hear/see another one for comparison purposes. Otherwise, I'd appreciate anyone simply stating if their sump sounds similar.

In the video below, I've put the filter housing back on and got similar results, but with larger air bubbles this time. I think the larger air bubbles are a result of the smaller air bubbles "ganging up" in the filter housing, and then being pushed through the remainder of the suction line.

Kioti NX451 Filter Reinstall - YouTube

In short, no real difference that I can tell between the filter assembly on and the filter assembly bypassed. Both configurations give me bubbles. By the way, testing did require that I drain and refill the fluid. Yes, it was a pain.

Again, would appreciate any comments regarding sound (if any) at your hydro fill port!

 

[Overtaxed]

Well, really interesting results. A few comments.

First, answering your question, yes, mine does that too, I can "hear" the bubbles going back into the fluid just like yours. Sounds pretty much identical, as the issue gets worse, it gets worse. Before I did the filter housing, it was so bad that pulling the dipstick for hydro fluid, it was so foamed up, foam actually came out of the port. Yours is nowhere near that bad, but the sound is the same. And that's what mine sounds like too now (now that the bubbles are back) near the fill port. I did NOT sound like that directly after the filter housing replacement, it was effectively silent back there (couldn't hear any fluid movement at all).

What you're seeing in your line without the filter on is exactly what I'm seeing in mine (with the filter). Bigger bubbles (not foam, which is what I was seeing pre-replacement). Pretty much identical. And they are new, right after the filter was done, there was NO bubble at all. However, that said, the machine is working pretty good for me now, I feel a very, very occasional "slip" in the tranny, but, if you weren't looking for it, you wouldn't notice it. So, I'm wondering, perhaps that bubble is "normal"? I really don't know, but it was not there right after the filter, now it is there, that much I can tell you.

Thing is; I'm really not sure what we could be dealing with here. I don't think it's splashing in the tank that's causing this, the pickup is all the way in the bottom, I can't see how a bubble would get down there and be sucked up. However, there's only about 3 ft of pipe between the tank and the pump and you've bypassed the filter housing.. <scratching head>. I really don't know what it could be, because, in my eyes anyway, seems like you need to have a leak on the suction side to get that symptom. And the suction side is very short. Bad Oring/seal somewhere (where the pipe goes into the tank or connects to the pump? There's just not a lot of places to look here, and most of them don't seem very likely (however, that said, I thought the same thing about the filter housing and was dead wrong, so.. What do I know).

I do wonder about the pump. Could it somehow be whipping air in there that's well dissolved and can make it's way back into the sump? That was what I thought initially, a hairline crack in the pump housing but... That wasn't necessary in my case.

Either way, Kioti has a problem here that I hope they figure out. There's something wrong on these machines, I'm guessing it's some fraction of them, but.. I'm also guessing it's a lot higher than 3 (the 3 of us talking about it here). Also, my experience with the filter housing (Kioti insisting we change it before they'd warranty the pump) tells me that they have some intel on the problem beyond what we know.

I'm really not sure. It's hard to know if that bubble is a "problem" or normal operation. My machine seems fine, nobody but one of us would ever notice unless they were told about it. So, is what I'm seeing normal? Still, if so, where is the air coming from and why wasn't in there directly after the filter housing replacement? Lots of questions, not many answers.

 

[xcgreene]

YLee, Overtaxed and Justman - I've been following this thread, and I'm really sorry you're having these issues. As you keep in touch among yourselves, please do check in once in awhile with the rest of us NX owners on how this plays out. We all benefit from having the shared info. :thumbsup:

I've run my NX hard for 4-1/2 yrs old, and fortunately haven't had any hydraulic problems beyond a pesky leak from the ORB fitting at the input port of the joystick valve body. But that alone impressed on me how annoying a recurring problem can be. After replacing the 0-ring several times over a one-year period, which would temporarily stop the leak, I finally realized there had to be a slight machining discrepancy in the ORB fitting itself. The captured flat washer that compresses the 0-ring against the boss in the valve body had an internal diameter that was slightly too large. That allowed part of the 0-ring eventually to distort out of position. I replaced the whole fitting for $27, and problem was finally solved.

I'll second this. I've been reading this closely and am very interested.

 

[YLee Kioti]

YLee, Overtaxed and Justman - I've been following this thread, and I'm really sorry you're having these issues. As you keep in touch among yourselves, please do check in once in awhile with the rest of us NX owners on how this plays out. We all benefit from having the shared info. :thumbsup:

I've run my NX hard for 4-1/2 yrs old, and fortunately haven't had any hydraulic problems beyond a pesky leak from the ORB fitting at the input port of the joystick valve body. But that alone impressed on me how annoying a recurring problem can be. After replacing the 0-ring several times over a one-year period, which would temporarily stop the leak, I finally realized there had to be a slight machining discrepancy in the ORB fitting itself. The captured flat washer that compresses the 0-ring against the boss in the valve body had an internal diameter that was slightly too large. That allowed part of the 0-ring eventually to distort out of position. I replaced the whole fitting for $27, and problem was finally solved.

Great info, helps us all out.\Maybe one day when this gets sorted out we can have a sticky about common issues for future NX owners.
Yes sir will post an update later towards the end of Sep.
The NX like most all other colors are great machines for their designed applications. My concern is a safety issue of an implement hooked up and anyone can be back there making and adjustment, inspecting hook up etc. and when the 3pt jumps it is startling.

Have a shady weekend....to stinking hot to BBQ...lol....

 

[justman777]

Yeah, I think I'm done messing with it for the next two weeks or so. Taking off on some vacation time. :thumbsup:

I'm leaning more towards the pump at this point. If air is getting in, it has to be after the location of the clear tubing. The only thing in-line after that is the pump connection and the pump itself.

To date, I've done the following:

- Replaced the filter housing o-rings
- Replaced the filter housing itself, along with a new filter
- Tightened the filter
- Installed clear tubing with stronger clamps at the typical tubing location (replaced existing tubing)
- Installed all new suction side o-rings. This includes the sump connection, the filter head inside connection, the filter head outside connection, and the tubing pump connection
- Bypassed filter housing with clear tubing
- Re-installed the filter housing

All that, and no appreciable difference in noise (gurgling, air-in-the-line, etc), or tractor performance (occasional jumping of the three point, hit and miss performance on the loader at lower RPMs, tractor jerking in lower reverse speeds, loader and three-point leak down).

I'll wait on my dealer to get in a few more NX's and install clear tubing in one to see if they get the same results. Even if they do, I think I'm going to ask for a pump replacement.

 

[YLee Kioti]

So hopefully I did not brain fart and miss any photos. here are a few revealing the foaming of the Hyd. fluid at the fill port.

So here is a short narrative. Drove it out of shop to under awning and let it idle.
Removed fill plug and one can hear a noise distinctly different then when simply placing the plug over the fill port.
Using a flashlight I can observe fluid spraying and creating the bubbles building to a nice head like on top of a beer glass.
Once engine is shut down the bubbles quickly disperse and goes to a liquid with no indication of any bubbles.

Well that's it for now. Have to remove duct tape adhesive from shop rubber flooring mats.
Stay in the (duh) shade folks....:drink:

 

[justman777]

So hopefully I did not brain fart and miss any photos. here are a few revealing the foaming of the Hyd. fluid at the fill port.

So here is a short narrative. Drove it out of shop to under awning and let it idle.
Removed fill plug and one can hear a noise distinctly different then when simply placing the plug over the fill port.
Using a flashlight I can observe fluid spraying and creating the bubbles building to a nice head like on top of a beer glass.
Once engine is shut down the bubbles quickly disperse and goes to a liquid with no indication of any bubbles.

Well that's it for now. Have to remove duct tape adhesive from shop rubber flooring mats.
Stay in the (duh) shade folks....:drink:

Can someone who is NOT having this issue post your results as well, for comparison purposes?

Thanks YLee!

 

[MinnesotaEric]

By the way, testing did require that I drain and refill the fluid. Yes, it was a pain.

I was going to say having replaced a damaged suction line... Hassle factor 10.

My tractor is only noisey on start-up in the cold. I cannot find 20D trans/hydro fluid which I would like to try to see if it makes a difference in the winter.

This video is typical of a cold start for me:

 

[Overtaxed]

I was going to say having replaced a damaged suction line... Hassle factor 10.

My tractor is only noisey on start-up in the cold. I cannot find 20D trans/hydro fluid which I would like to try to see if it makes a difference in the winter.

This video is typical of a cold start for me:

I'll say it again. You absolutely have the problem Eric. I can hear it in your video. I would bet you my tractor that if you put a clear line on it, totally filled with foam and bubbles. It should NOT sound like that, not even cold start. When my housing was replaced, we had a few freezing nights, and I went out to start the tractor and just see how it was. ZERO of that stuttering/noise I hear in your video. And before the replacement, it was a mess, just like yours, in the cold.

I'd further bet that you're getting slip at times and just don't feel it/used to it. It's subtle, but it's there if you know what to feel for. IMHO, you have the same problem we're having. Start with the filter housing. Once you feel the tractor work right (which mine never did, it always had that noise I hear in your video, it just got worse as time went on and the temp dropped), you'll never be able to ignore it again.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I'll say it again. You absolutely have the problem Eric. I can hear it in your video. I would bet you my tractor that if you put a clear line on it, totally filled with foam and bubbles. It should NOT sound like that, not even cold start. When my housing was replaced, we had a few freezing nights, and I went out to start the tractor and just see how it was. ZERO of that stuttering/noise I hear in your video. And before the replacement, it was a mess, just like yours, in the cold.

I'd further bet that you're getting slip at times and just don't feel it/used to it. It's subtle, but it's there if you know what to feel for. IMHO, you have the same problem we're having. Start with the filter housing. Once you feel the tractor work right (which mine never did, it always had that noise I hear in your video, it just got worse as time went on and the temp dropped), you'll never be able to ignore it again.

I've put in an inquiry with my dealer but they have not heard back from Kioti.