Odd Fendt “feature”?

[hayden]

I came across an odd feature on Fendt tractors. At least it’s not what I have experienced on other tractors.

Say it’s set up with 4 rear remotes/SCVs. If you add a loader, the loader doesn’t get its own dedicated valves, but rather uses the first two rear valves. The result is that with a loader you are now down to two rear remotes instead of 4. On all the tractors I have experienced the loader control valves are in addition to any rears so you never lose rear remotes.

Also, when the loader is equipped with a 3rd or 4th circuit for something like a grapple, there isn’t a 3rd or 4th valve. It’s just a diversion valve that repurposed one of the loader primary functions while you operate the 3rd function. So you can’t lift, roll back, and close the grapple at the same time.

Is this common on other tractors? I am a bit taken back by it.

 

[Farmer495]

Most third functions are a switch on the joystick.

I haven't run a Fendt, I have come across other companies using rear remotes for loaders though. Some of that is just budget of the owner.

 

[oldnslo]

Not familiar with Fendt but since they are a high tech machine and run all electro-hydraulic valves I suspect their may be another diverter type valve or valves involved so can use both loader and rear remotes. The tractor knows where command is coming from for either operating loader or rear remotes.

I could be 100% wrong is this belief though.

 

[hayden]

Most third functions are a switch on the joystick.

I have a switch on my loader for the 3rd function, but it controls a 3rd valve that is independent of, and in addition to the loader boom and curl valves. So I can operate all 3 at the same time in any combination. That's a Kubota. And all the Deere 5 and 6 series tractors are the same way. The loader valves, no matter how many you have, are independent from the SCVs. Deere refers to them as "mid" and "rear" SCVs. But they are all independent from each other. They aren't just additional connection points for the same valve.

Maybe it's a European thing? I would understand if it were a budget tractor, but in all other ways Fendt is considered top-end for features and functions. That's why this was such a surprise to me.

 

[dodge man]

Most third functions do lose a loader function when you operate it, at least on smaller tractors.

 

[hayden]

Not familiar with Fendt but since they are a high tech machine and run all electro-hydraulic valves I suspect their may be another diverter type valve or valves involved so can use both loader and rear remotes. The tractor knows where command is coming from for either operating loader or rear remotes.

I could be 100% wrong is this belief though.

Their manual is clear that if you have the loader connected, it plumbs to SCVs #1 and #2, and that you then cannot use those SCVs on the rear. And I have confirmed this with the dealer, and with his Fendt rep. So I'm quite confident this is how it works.

 

[hayden]

Most third functions do lose a loader function when you operate it, at least on smaller tractors.

OK, thanks. So my L5740 may be a "transition" tractor where the 3rd function is a full function valve and not just a redirection of one of the main functions.

I can also see how a lot of aftermarket 3rd functions would just be diverter values. It's certainly a lot easier to do it that way.

 

[hayden]

What about Deere 3 and 4 series tractors with factory 3rd function on the loader? Anyone familiar with how they work, and whether they are an independent valve, or a diversion of one of the main functions? I know the answer for 5 and 6 series, but don't know about the compacts.

 

[oldnslo]

Their manual is clear that if you have the loader connected, it plumbs to SCVs #1 and #2, and that you then cannot use those SCVs on the rear. And I have confirmed this with the dealer, and with his Fendt rep. So I'm quite confident this is how it works.

Interesting, what size Fendt do you have?

 

[Hay Dude]

I have a switch on my loader for the 3rd function, but it controls a 3rd valve that is independent of, and in addition to the loader boom and curl valves. So I can operate all 3 at the same time in any combination. That's a Kubota. And all the Deere 5 and 6 series tractors are the same way. The loader valves, no matter how many you have, are independent from the SCVs. Deere refers to them as "mid" and "rear" SCVs. But they are all independent from each other. They aren't just additional connection points for the same valve.

Maybe it's a European thing? I would understand if it were a budget tractor, but in all other ways Fendt is considered top-end for features and functions. That's why this was such a surprise to me.

You can, but would there be enough hydraulic pressure/reserve to operate all 3 of the functions?
My AGCOs are the same way as Fendts. The loader “borrows” hydraulic flow from a “T” behind the rear remotes.
IMO, the assumption is there are few, if any times when you would be running the loader at the same time as rear remotes. In addition, there are (2) or more other rear remotes available for rear attachments that are not part of the loader hydraulics.
Most AGCO tractors I see come with a minimum of 4 sets of rear valves, while I see most other brands come with 2. Any more are optional. My 655E has 6 sets of remotes and the armrest joystick has 2 buttons that “split” those 2 remotes in the joystick.
My 535B has a electronic joystick for the loader in the arm rest with a small button on each side that operates a 3rd function (grapple) and a 4th function (hydraulic quick attach).

Pretty slick. Much nicer to operate than a big floor mounted joystick.

 

[CalG]

Loaders are somewhat less "common" in Europe than in N.A.
I can see not having them on a pedestal.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Loaders are somewhat less "common" in Europe than in N.A.
I can see not having them on a pedestal.

Me to until I need one which is about everyday.

 

[Hay Dude]

Here is the blue electronic joystick built into the armrest of my 13 year old AGCO Challenger. You can barely see the small black buttons that operate the 3rd & 4th functions on the loader on the sides of the blue joystick.

You can turn off the loader with the rear small blue button. This allows you to switch the joystick over to operating 2 of the remotes in the back of the tractor. The other 2 black levers operate the additional 3rd & 4th remotes in the back of the tractor.

 

[hayden]

Interesting, what size Fendt do you have?

None at the moment, but I have been considering a 200 or 300 series. I went to see a 312 the other day and it's too big for what I need, so it would be a 200, for me, probably a 211. But this hydraulic control issue is a bit of a fly in the ointment.

I can see how in a full-on ag application it would be unusual for a tractor to both have a loader and be making heavy use of rear remotes. In fact from the little bit I've seen, tractors tend to be more dedicated to particular tasks. So you may have a tractor doing loader duty. Other things too, but it's mostly doing loader work. In that case, who cares if rear remotes are lost to the loader. And I have seen tractors dedicated to row cropping with no loader at all.

But for me it's more of a swiss army knife tractor. My loader is ALWAYs installed. It never comes off. I switch between a bucket, a snow blower, and pallet forks, but the loader is always there. And I have commonly used all three of my remotes. The most common raking my road where I have a hydraulic top link, a hydraulic side link to to get a tilt angle on the rake, and an angle cylinder on the rake itself to pull material to the left or right. I also would like to have independent control on my flex wing mower for height, and raise/lower on each wing so I can lift over obstructions. And when mowing I put a big root rake on the loader so I can push downed trees and branches out of the way when mowing. So I regularly use the loader and all three rear remotes, and don't want to move backwards from that.

 

[CalG]

Me to until I need one which is about everyday.

Your particular habits and needs do not really drive much of Fendt engineering.

It's not all about you.... ;-)

You would be amazed at what work can be done from the BACK end of a good tractor. Loader work should really go to loaders ;-0

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Your particular habits and needs do not really drive much of Fendt engineering.

It's not all about you.... ;-)

You would be amazed at what work can be done from the BACK end of a good tractor. Loader work should really go to loaders ;-0

I get it and you are right it's not all about me but there are a lot of people like me that use their loader's everyday to make life easier and some task's doable, as a boy we row crop farmed and did everything with the 3 point hitch but my dad finally saw the light and we got a tractor with a loader, haven't bought one since without one.I have a skid steer job this morning but late this afternoon I have a lady coming for some round rolls of oat hay, she has a fairly tall deckover trailer and the loader will be the tool that makes it possible to get her loaded and get me paid. Tractor loader combo sales seems to prove that it's not all about you either Imagine if everyone had to go out and buy a dedicated loader to do the work that their tractor under the barn could do if only equipped with a loader.

 

[Hay Dude]

I think some of you may be thinking of this incorrectly, or looking for a problem where a problem doesn’t exist.

From the cab of a Fendt/Massey/Challenger/AGCO equipped with a a factory joystick and loader and 4 remotes you can simply push a small button to “toggle” back and forth between the loader and the 2 remotes the loader it tied into. Also, the factory loader joystick is a double splitter (if you opt for it) joystick that enable to use 2 or 3 loader functions at once.

Then you are also given 2 straight up remotes with nothing tied to them you can use while using your loader.

So where’s the problem?

 

[Hay Dude]

None at the moment, but I have been considering a 200 or 300 series. I went to see a 312 the other day and it's too big for what I need, so it would be a 200, for me, probably a 211. But this hydraulic control issue is a bit of a fly in the ointment.

I can see how in a full-on ag application it would be unusual for a tractor to both have a loader and be making heavy use of rear remotes. In fact from the little bit I've seen, tractors tend to be more dedicated to particular tasks. So you may have a tractor doing loader duty. Other things too, but it's mostly doing loader work. In that case, who cares if rear remotes are lost to the loader. And I have seen tractors dedicated to row cropping with no loader at all.

But for me it's more of a swiss army knife tractor. My loader is ALWAYs installed. It never comes off. I switch between a bucket, a snow blower, and pallet forks, but the loader is always there. And I have commonly used all three of my remotes. The most common raking my road where I have a hydraulic top link, a hydraulic side link to to get a tilt angle on the rake, and an angle cylinder on the rake itself to pull material to the left or right. I also would like to have independent control on my flex wing mower for height, and raise/lower on each wing so I can lift over obstructions. And when mowing I put a big root rake on the loader so I can push downed trees and branches out of the way when mowing. So I regularly use the loader and all three rear remotes, and don't want to move backwards from that.

Dude, relax. You can still do that. On your flex wing mower complaint: 2 of the remotes are available independently for the “wings”. For raising/lowering mower deck, you simply push a button in the cab to use the joystick to raise the more up/down.

 

[ConawayFarms]

Man, that’s a weird setup! I’ve mostly run John Deere and Case, and they always had dedicated loader valves, so you’d never lose rear remotes. Fendt’s approach sounds like a real head-scratcher, kinda limits your flexibility, especially if you’re juggling multiple implements. That diverter valve thing for the 3rd function is a bummer too; not being able to run all loader functions at once feels like a step back.

 

[Hay Dude]

Man, that’s a weird setup! I’ve mostly run John Deere and Case, and they always had dedicated loader valves, so you’d never lose rear remotes. Fendt’s approach sounds like a real head-scratcher, kinda limits your flexibility, especially if you’re juggling multiple implements. That diverter valve thing for the 3rd function is a bummer too; not being able to run all loader functions at once feels like a step back.

You can run all loader functions without a diverter valve! SHM.
The reason for the diverter valve is to switch from the loader valves to the REAR remotes, not the loader functions. It makes the loader joystick into a set of rear remotes.
I run my loader with 3rd function grapple or hydraulic quick attach without switching anything.
Its not a “real head scratcher” its actually very logical.

Also, since you have (4) sets of remotes and 2 of them are not part of the armrest joystick, you have 2 sets of traditional remotes available at all times.