Offgrid Genset Transfer switch

[ponytug]

Are you offgrid because there are no transmission lines to your property or it is too costly to connect to them? When visiting my sister in law on Kauai I noticed how expensive gasoline and propane are. This makes me wonder about how much it costs you to run your generators. I'm just curious.
Thanks,
Eric

Power rates in Hawaii aren't exactly cheap, $.37-$0.4+/kWh, plus the usual add-ons.

https://www.hawaiianelectric.com/documents/billing_and_payment/rates/effective_rate_summary/2025/efs_2025_01.pdf

Hawaii has been moving away from fossil fuels, but demand has kept petroleum at about 77%. They did shut down their last coal fired a while back;

Hawaii Profile

But, yes, fuel costs are high, as are power costs, favoring solar, but so many folks have solar already that HELCO requires batteries with solar in many areas, because the small grid(s) can't absorb all of the power.

All the best,

Peter

P.S. the Wikipedia entry on Hawaiian electricity is riddled with with dated or misstated information.

 

[sodamo]

Are you offgrid because there are no transmission lines to your property or it is too costly to connect to them? When visiting my sister in law on Kauai I noticed how expensive gasoline and propane are. This makes me wonder about how much it costs you to run your generators. I'm just curious.
Thanks,
Eric

A mixed bag
Neighbor directly behind me has grid power. Would have been 3-4 poles to get it to mine, as well as permission. At the time, it penciled out pretty close. Wife and I reasoned that if we had power extended here the next property down could expect same and we end up with a view of power lines.
Gas, propane, and diesel all hover around $5/g. Since upgrading # of panels, batteries and my Radian system, i’m about 100 hours or less per year running generator, so around $500/yr. I used about 11300 kwh power last year. Guessing that would have been an easy $5k to the power company.
We use propane through the house for stove, hot water, dryer, need diesel for my tractor, gas for mower so no big deal.

 

[etpm]

A mixed bag
Neighbor directly behind me has grid power. Would have been 3-4 poles to get it to mine, as well as permission. At the time, it penciled out pretty close. Wife and I reasoned that if we had power extended here the next property down could expect same and we end up with a view of power lines.
Gas, propane, and diesel all hover around $5/g. Since upgrading # of panels, batteries and my Radian system, i’m about 100 hours or less per year running generator, so around $500/yr. I used about 11300 kwh power last year. Guessing that would have been an easy $5k to the power company.
We use propane through the house for stove, hot water, dryer, need diesel for my tractor, gas for mower so no big deal.

So you really don't run your generator very much. I can see how that would work out in your favor. I wanted to get 3 phase power run to my place for the machine shop I was building. It would have required 5 new poles because three phase poles are taller than single phase poles where I live. I would have had to pay 1500 bucks per pole, and pay for the new wires, and the utility would have owned the poles and the wires. I ended buying a phase converter which served me very well for 25 years until I retired. It seems like you have done the most economical thing considering your situation.
Eric

 

[ultrarunner]

Is under-grounding of electric an option?

In WA everything to my place is underground… electric, comcast and phone.

It keeps the views and minimizes storm interruptions.

 

[WinterDeere]

Is under-grounding of electric an option?

In WA everything to my place is underground… electric, comcast and phone.

It keeps the views and minimizes storm interruptions.

We're underground here, too. Really cuts down on outages, in our heavily-forested corner of PA.

At least in our case, the underground run from Verizon (FiOS) was free, but it was less than 500 feet from the closest box to my front door. If etpm only needs 5 poles, their run is probably even shorter than mine.

 

[etpm]

Is under-grounding of electric an option?

In WA everything to my place is underground… electric, comcast and phone.

It keeps the views and minimizes storm interruptions.

My power is all underground once it is on my property. The poles I would have had to buy were poles running down the street and one pole on my property and one on my neighbor's. The power runs down my street on a couple poles, then on the pole on my neighbor's property, then on the pole on my property, then crosses the road to another pole, then under the street back onto my property where it remains underground. Crazy. The phone is all underground. There is no Comcast running down my street and never will be. Not enough customers.
Eric

 

[5030]

The prudent way is to run utilities underground but it initially costs more in equipment and manpower than overhead on wooden poles so utility companies don't do it. They should in reality. Don't here but again should. Being independent companies, their profit margins paramount, not practical application, IOW poles are cheaper initially.

 

[WinterDeere]

...poles are cheaper initially.

Yeah that's definitely been the case for many years. But having watched PECO run all new underground lines in our neighborhood last year, I'm wondering how much that holds true today. They basically dig a hole every 100 - 200 feet, and just shoot the line thru the earth between holes. No more trenching, like the old days.

At some point, you would think the cost of the poles, pole hardware, and the cost of planting them has to be getting awful close to basically shooting wires thru the earth, in a trenchless model.

 

[5030]

Yeah that's definitely been the case for many years. But having watched PECO run all new underground lines in our neighborhood last year, I'm wondering how much that holds true today. They basically dig a hole every 100 - 200 feet, and just shoot the line thru the earth between holes. No more trenching, like the old days.

At some point, you would think the cost of the poles, pole hardware, and the cost of planting them has to be getting awful close to basically shooting wires thru the earth, in a trenchless model.

We went through the pole thing on our up north property. Were going to build a home up there and Consumers quoted us a price to run power from the existing lines to where we wanted it on the property and it was 55 grand to set the poles and string the wires. We passed. The taxes on the property are already high enough so it stays as it is, hunting property only. I'd like to live there but not gonna happen. Closest to living there is taking the camper up in the summer and 'roughing it. Hunt time is the motel. Around here underground would be iffy with all the mature tree roots to deal with I presume. The issue around here is the Utility (DTE) don't keep up on trimming the trees so with almost every wind storm comes an outage because of limbs taking the wires down. If DTE just instituted a proper trimming program, there would be no issue.

 

[ponytug]

Yeah that's definitely been the case for many years. But having watched PECO run all new underground lines in our neighborhood last year, I'm wondering how much that holds true today. They basically dig a hole every 100 - 200 feet, and just shoot the line thru the earth between holes. No more trenching, like the old days.

At some point, you would think the cost of the poles, pole hardware, and the cost of planting them has to be getting awful close to basically shooting wires thru the earth, in a trenchless model.

Depending on where the line is, there are trade offs between the longer lifetime of overhead wire compared to underground wire, vs the potentially maintenance costs of overhead wire (tree trimming, and pole/insulator inspections) vs lower maintenance costs, but higher costs of underground runs. At the end of the day, I suspect only the utility has the numbers for those trade offs, and new equipment or labor contractors could push things one way or the other.

Around here, capital investment is guaranteed a 10% ROI for utilities, labor just comes as a running cost. Hence the current push to underground wires at billion dollar prices in California. Warped would be a good adjective to use.

All the best,

Peter