Oil Failure

[TPS]

Hey fellas,
There are a lot of good posts here and elsewhere about oil etc. etc. In reality, except for race cars has anyone ever actually seen an oil related failure if oil and filter changes were done anywhere close to right? I was once in a fleet situation where guys were supposed to make sure the oil was changed at 3K miles and they showed it on reports. As we all know that can be faked and one guy had his car in the district shop for an oil change and I am not kidding they came in with a sample of his oil and it looked like molasses! Yet the car was still running and after they did do an oil and filter change as far as I know his car kept on running. This was back in the '70s the newer cars might not do it but anyway I was just wondering anyone ever see a real oil failure in a car/truck/tractor engine?
Take care-TPS

 

[Volfandt]

Yes and no, but really no , the failures I've seen were due to not regularly changing the oil & filter. Saw it twice.
The owners just added when needed and didn't change the filters on either. Both involved dino oil that had a rediculous amount of mileage built up.
One was 70's model Chevy 307 V8 and the other was an 85 Ranger w/2.8L V6. Both were locked up. Pulled the valve covers and you couldn't see the valve train in either due to the sludge buildup. Dropped the oil pan(s) and they were both filled practically to the brim with hard & soft sludge.
Actually got the Ranger running again by cleaning out as much of the sludge as possible, soaking the cylinders w/WD40 through the plug holes, let it sit for a couple days then put a breaker bar on the harmonic balancer bolt. Course it never ran the same again and don't know how long it lasted but it did run again

 

[art]

I like play toys and one place that I've seen oil break down is the viscostity in higher reving applications with load. I've had several cars that would break it down within a few runs down the track or just going through the gears hard.

I've seen cars that went to far on the grade of oil they were using for oil changes and they were well built up with crud on the inside. I've used tire irons and pipe wrenches to remove a small block chevy engine distributer from an engine that was running only hours before. The whole when I did get it out matched the shaft perfectly! I've removed valve covers and not could not see the rocker arms.

I've seen diesel engines that didn't have a working thermostat and because of the unburnt fuel that went by the rings, the oil which was ready by the hour meter to change was worse then molassass! We pulled the pan, (rank had spun a bearing) to get the oil out.

I guess I've seen oil failure before, and I've seen where owners neglect comes in. A small town police deptartment about two miles if you stretch it from end to end that left a car running 24/7(being prepared) and didn't change it but by the mileage! only made it to the second oil change on the engine!

I can't say I've seen it all, and I can't wait to see some more!

 

[Bird]

Since my dad owned a service station and an auto parts store and we knew every mechanic in town, yes, I've seen some failures, but the reasons were usually obvious.

In the mid-50s, Amalie Motor Oil did a good bit of advertising and apparently it worked and a lot of people used it. I've seen it "gelled" in oil pans so firmly it could hardly be dug out with a putty knife. And the problem? First off, the popular Amalie of that time was a non-detergent oil, when all the major oil companies had gone to detergent oil, cars were being made with hydraulic valve lifters, oil filters were common (most of you probably aren't old enough to remember when cars didn't have oil filters), some folks didn't change their oil as often as needed, and the Texas heat probably didn't help either.

In 1973, I bought a little Winnebago motorhome that had a 2.5 kw Onan single cylinder generator. Not long after I changed the oil the first time, that generator's exhaust started smoking. The motorhome dealer sent me to an Onan dealer. It was in the middle of the summer with very hot temperatures and when I went back the next day, the generator was running, not smoking, and they had left it running overnight. The first thing the guy asked was what kind of oil I had in it (Exxon Uniflow 10W-30 which was what I was using in the car back then), and he said that was the only problem. He showed me a couple of oil pans with gelled oil just as I'd seen nearly 20 years earlier, and told me those generators run too hot to use an oil for gasoline engines, even though it was a gasoline powered generator; said I needed an oil designed for diesels and Exxon at that time had one called Dieselube 40W and never another problem.

 

[Bird]

I'm one of those who has, for many years, changed oil every 3k miles in my vehicles. Even though the vehicle manufacturers recommended every 5k miles, but 3k miles for "severe" service, such as trailer towing, hot, dusty conditions, etc., the dealers in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area said they considered the heat and pollution in the area to be severe service, so they all (all the ones I knew of anyway) recommended the 3k mile interval. But the last time I had the oil changed in my vehicles, they put the little sticker in the upper left corner of the windshield showing when the next oil change would be due and I noticed it showed 5k miles instead of 3k, so I asked about it and the service writer told me they had changed to synthetic oil now and recommended 5k for my vehicles, 7.5k for the new ones. That, of course, if a Ford dealership.

 

[LBrown59]

It happened here.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/buying-pricing-comparisons/145287-bad-oil-new-tractor.htmlhttp://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/buying-pricing-comparisons/145287-bad-oil-new-tractor.html

 

[kenstrac]

The only oil failure I can remember was in the 1970-80 was Quaker State they had omitted an additive and many engines were lost that really cost them$$$$ for the repairs, and during that time you could go into auto part stores and it just sat there no one would buy it.I lucked in one store that wanted to dump Quaker State was selling it for .10 per Qt bought a case used it as sickle bar lube worked OK there.

 

[Bird]

The only oil failure I can remember was in the 1970-80 was Quaker State they had omitted an additive and many engines were lost that really cost them$$$$ for the repairs, and during that time you could go into auto part stores and it just sat there no one would buy it.I lucked in one store that wanted to dump Quaker State was selling it for .10 per Qt bought a case used it as sickle bar lube worked OK there.

Did you know that in the early '80s, Quaker State was one of the oils specifically recommended in the owners manuals of diesel Mercedes cars? A friend bought a new 1981 diesel Mercedes and I bought a new 1982 Isuzu I-Mark diesel sedan. His manual listed oils by brand name while my manual only listed oil specs; i.e., CC/CD, etc. And back then the Quaker State was rated for diesels. So I started using Quaker State in 1982 and used nothing else until after I bought a 1995 Kubota tractor and happened to notice that the Quaker State no longer had the diesel rating, so I used Delo 400 15W-40 in the tractor, but still used the Quaker State in the car and pickup until I moved back to town in November 2002. In other words, I used it for 20 years with no complaints.

 

[kenstrac]

Did you know that in the early '80s, Quaker State was one of the oils specifically recommended in the owners manuals of diesel Mercedes cars? A friend bought a new 1981 diesel Mercedes and I bought a new 1982 Isuzu I-Mark diesel sedan. His manual listed oils by brand name while my manual only listed oil specs; i.e., CC/CD, etc. And back then the Quaker State was rated for diesels. So I started using Quaker State in 1982 and used nothing else until after I bought a 1995 Kubota tractor and happened to notice that the Quaker State no longer had the diesel rating, so I used Delo 400 15W-40 in the tractor, but still used the Quaker State in the car and pickup until I moved back to town in November 2002. In other words, I used it for 20 years with no complaints.

Yes back then a lot of oils were rated CD then the feds had them take the phosphate out of the oil that was the end of that.

 

[sw03]

Hey fellas,
There are a lot of good posts here and elsewhere about oil etc. etc. In reality, except for race cars has anyone ever actually seen an oil related failure if oil and filter changes were done anywhere close to right? I was once in a fleet situation where guys were supposed to make sure the oil was changed at 3K miles and they showed it on reports. As we all know that can be faked and one guy had his car in the district shop for an oil change and I am not kidding they came in with a sample of his oil and it looked like molasses! Yet the car was still running and after they did do an oil and filter change as far as I know his car kept on running. This was back in the '70s the newer cars might not do it but anyway I was just wondering anyone ever see a real oil failure in a car/truck/tractor engine?
Take care-TPS

There are some and the issues are few and far between if you follow the manual.

#2 is color color, blank-not black, has ZERO to do with what is left on its life.

The 3K oil changes did in the 70's. They are a waste and 99% of them whom did it never pulled a UOA to see what they have left. Heck, I would put my oil with 3X the miles up against a 3K drainer...

 

[KennyV]

I have seen recent cam failure due to inadequate oil performance.
Flat tappet valve train geometry can call for more high pressure lube additives than are currently allowed in motor oils including synthetic...
That said most valve configurations today use roller tappets or a very mild angular grind...

 

[TPS]

KennyV,
I did see some problems with those type of cams on rebuilt engines with the newer oils, I forgot about that and that is a good reminder for anyone rebuilding an engine with the flat tappets.
SWo3,
Very true one can not tell about oil simply by looking at it as far as what kind of life is left in it.
Volfandt and Bird,
Those are the kinds of failures I have seen. Believe it or not I have seen a couple that were almost as bad as those and they were actually still running but I bet not for long.
LB59,
I saw those posts and they were very interesting but the ones I remember were about Hydro oils. The principle still applies though.
Hey I have enjoyed reading these posts and stories. I do remember that Quaker State went through some kind of problem back then too because I was advised to stay away from it at that time but did not remember the reason if I ever knew.
Take care-TPS

 

[dodge man]

I've seen one, and it was pure owner neglect. It was a Jeep Wrangler, co-worker owned it about 3 years, never changed the oil, or checked it. When I helped him push it in the parking lot one day, it was 5 quarts low and he said the oil pressure gauge had been fluttering around 0. He had put maybe 30,000 miles on it, and it had about 60,000 miles total. I guess you could call it an oil failure, or lack there of.

Like others, I have seen engines that were badly sludged, always was 1970's vintage stuff. I think it was a problem in the mid 70's to early 80's with engine and/or oil design. Every thing I've seen that was newer that was take apart looked brand new inside.

 

[DieselPower]

I have seen a little newer than that get really gunked up. I had (still have but only use for storage) a 1988 Chevrolet G30 cube van with a 350. Way back when I first got it I figured I would give the old girl a little more pep and do a cam swap in it. When I took the valve covers off I was looking at gunk near 2 inch's thick. Some of the rockers and push rods were almost completely covered. All thanks to the EGR system that is routed through the cylinder head that causes hot spots. Low quality oil had apparently been used during it's life and the result was a engine that surprisingly didn't fail due to oil starvation of the top end. I decided to take the heads off and cook them to remove all the gunk. Years later and about 120K miles more I had the valve covers off again to do a valve cover gasket job and there wasn't a spot of gunk to be seen. Good maintenance and high quality oil kept it spotless. Still runs good to this day though it only makes trips of 100 feet or less, it's only used for storage of about 2 tons of steel.

 

[Bird]

I think you'd call it an owner failure instead of an oil failure, but I actually had a young lady, early 20s working for me about 1982 who bought herself a new Buick. A year or so later, the engine seized up on it and it had to have a new engine and it was NOT covered by warranty. As it turned out, she had driven it a lot during that year, racked up a lot of miles, and had never done anything to it except put gas in it. It was hard for me to imagine anyone getting a drivers license and buying a car and not knowing that you had to check the oil and/or change it occasionally, but that's what happened. The hood had never been raised, the oil had never been checked after it left the dealer.

 

[Eagleview]

A little off the topic but i wonder how many people think the oil light on the dash is to tell them the oil level needs replenishing ? We had some friends stay with us , they were about to leave and i said have you checked your oil level ? They had not so i did it for them , nothing on the stick . I said it's empty , they said the light hadn't come on yet so they weren't worried , they would put some in when they got back home (500 miles) . I told them the light heralded low oil pressure , not low oil level and once it came on , you had a micro second to shut the engine off . Ive since spoken to others who believe the same .

 

[Bird]

Yep, I think there's quite a few people who mistakenly think that light is a low oil level indicator.

 

[Matt_Jr]

A little off the topic but i wonder how many people think the oil light on the dash is to tell them the oil level needs replenishing ? We had some friends stay with us , they were about to leave and i said have you checked your oil level ? They had not so i did it for them , nothing on the stick . I said it's empty , they said the light hadn't come on yet so they weren't worried , they would put some in when they got back home (500 miles) . I told them the light heralded low oil pressure , not low oil level and once it came on , you had a micro second to shut the engine off . Ive since spoken to others who believe the same .

I always shake my head in wonder at that stuff even though I've seen it hundreds of times. At work I get them a lot. I can't stress enough the importance of reading the owner's manual.

I just recently put an engine in a 2005 Chevy trailblazer That had lots of hardened carbon(no longer sludge) clogg up the oil pick up screen and lock up the engine due to oil starvation. I've also seen oil fail 'cause thermostats stuck open and caused the oil to become very thick and milky 'cause the engine never got hot enough to burn off the moisture that builds up in the crankcase. I've seen timing chains in cars wear out the tensionors 'caused by lack of oil getting through the oiling hole, and the hole had to be drilled out for proper oiling. I wasn't smart enough to figure this out though, found it on a TSB(Technical Service Bulliten).

I've seen lot's of Toyotas and Fords with overhead cams sieze up from oil starvation. Once I put an engine in a Ford Probe Cause the cam locked up, broke the timeing gear off the end of the cam, and cause some bent valves and a broken piston.

I am by no means an expert on oil, but like many, I have an opinion on when oil should be changed, and it isn't the same as what the experts say. For me, I use synthetic in everything. I use two different kinds too, Amsoil signature series and BG synthetic. Depends what's on hand when I change the oil. The signature series is supposed to be good for 35,000 miles. Yes that's right, Thirtyfive thousand miles. Their oil filter is good for 25,000 miles. I've never went that far but I have gone 15,000 on it and 10,000 miles on the BG oil which is good for 15,000 miles. I check my oil everytime I fill up the gas tank and never have to add oil to my truck. My Prius uses about a quart every 3 thousand miles so it is my opinion that, since I have to add oil, the oil I add, replenishes the additive package in the oil and I can go even farther on that. Every time I change the oil in my vehicles I look inside the oil pan with a flash light and have yet to see even a slight change of color up in there. Still looks like the day it was put together. Nice and clean aluminum and steel in there, and that's with 160k on the Prius and 60K on the Silverado.

Oh yeah, when's the last time you flushed your trans, brake and powersteering fluid, and serviced your diffs and transfer cases? I see failures in those components more than engines due to lack of fluid changes.

 

[Soundguy]

Yep, I think there's quite a few people who mistakenly think that light is a low oil level indicator.

They don't call em' "idiot lights" for no reason!

soundguy

 

[jfox]

A sister in law had a Mercedes suv.It had the change oil soon indicator, according to her.
It also had a low pressure 'idiot' light. She mistook them all the time.
When she traded it I asked about it and was told it was using oil at a high rate.
I asked the guy who worked with her about it, and he said it has its third oil filter on it!!
100,000 miles with only 3-4 changes. And she would only put the cheapest price oils in it.
I think she got $2,000 for it.