Old BX2200 D starter problems

[PedroWelshie]

First post - So fingers crossed!

I've an old Kubota BX2200 D - Its always been a little temperamental starting. Takes a good few go's before things turn over. I serviced last year cleaned starter motor & new battery. Everything seemed peachy and motor would start almost immediately.

This year all good - until suddenly it wont start. Varies from 1) all dash lights come on ignition, glow plug warming....clicking...but no start. 2) ignition lights, but no glow light and no clicking from starter motor (pinion doesn't pop out) or 3) Dead.....tried jump starting and nothing.

Installed a new ignition switch (waste of money) and that didn't make a difference. BUT! today I used jump leads from battery to starter motor directly (normal leads connected) and bingo - starts like a dream. So I've come to the conclusion that something is dud between battery & starter motor - and its not the ignition switch.

Is there a starter relay on the OLD Kubota's (there are no safety switches as I can start with PTO , Seat, etc. etc. ). Could it be a bad earth? HELP welcome and starter motor/engine details are in photos.

P.S. Still learning - No idea where the starter relay would be (or what it looks like).

 

[flyerdan]

If it has the small can type solenoid on the starter, chances are that the big contacts for the battery cables are eroded or crudded up. You can take the bakelite end cap off and clean everything up, and carefully tap out the square head copper bolts and turn them 180 degrees so the new edges are facing in. That should make it work like a new one again.

 

[Roadworthy]

I like to start at the beginning. Remove and clean battery cable ends and battery terminals. Replace the cables and tighten securely. If you can move them they're not tight. Follow the ground lead to the frame. Clean and tighten. Charge the battery. If it starts all is good. If not we can start troubleshooting from a known starting point.

 

[JWR]

I have an old BX2200 too (and have worked on 2 or 3 others.) There are 2 possibilities I know of. [certainly good advice from the 2 guys above about cleaning and tightening terminals which you should do anyway but I doubt that is your issue.]

1) You probably have a very common problem with the small Kubotas which is "not quite enough voltage to the starter solenoid." You have a solenoid at the starter motor which is a small metal box with a thin brown trigger wire leading to it from the starter switch by way of several detours that cause voltage drops before the voltage gets to the solenoid. So does John Deere and many other small similar tractors. Deere even sells a specific kit for the problem. The kit is just a relay that takes a lower voltage to trigger it an then it applies full battery voltage/current to the solenoid which then operates the starter motor. The manufacturer may have saved a dollar in not putting one on at the factory as they should have. I had one of these kits installed by a Kubota dealer rather than do it myself and my Kubota dealer calls it a "hard start kit." Typically when this is the problem using a battery charger on the battery terminals will let you start the motor about 80% of the time. That is because the battery charger provides MORE than 12v to the cables (like roughly 13.8v) and that is often enough to get things going. Note that "jump starting" from another battery still only provides more current if needed but NOT any higher voltage -- just 12v. That is why a battery charger will help (higher voltage) but a jump start from another battery will not.
2) Then there is the uglier possible problem -- the starter itself. I have 3 older B2150 Kubotas and one is very bad about zero response when turning the key to start it. It has some sort of old age issue with the starter. There have been a dozen half true theories (??) about the real root of the problem BUT I have been living with it this way: Take a long socket set extension (rod of heavy steel) and tap it against the starter motor housing like the one in your picture. If attempted starting produces NO sound at all -- not even a click -- this may be your issue. Mine in the B2150 is hard to get to without removing the outer sheet metal (which is why I use a long steel rod to slip down through a narrow space and reach the starter and tap it lightly using it's own weight or sometimes a hammer or small chunk of 2x4 to tap the end of the rod against the starter.) It will then start right up as if there never was problem. I have never had the urge or priority yet to go fix the starter or get it rebuilt.

 

[PedroWelshie]

Thank you all for the comments

I will give the grounding and contacts another clean (Not sure where the square head copper bolts are..).

JWR - Interesting. 1) seems to make sense & I've seen that John Deere kit. Perhaps that's why the direct connection on the battery fixes the problem?

2) About a year ago I changed the battery and took the starter motor/Solenoid out (They are built together unless Im calling a bit the wrong thing). And it was starting first turn. I did this because before I'd have to give it a Fonzey tap with a little hammer. Everytime...(tap) start...taking parts out, new battery seemed to resolve it for a year.

UPDATE: Started with jump leads again direct from battery - field topped...running fine. BUT parked her up and turned off the ignition. Tried starting without jump leads (as engine was warm) .....nothing no lights, nada.

 

[newbury]

multiple threads?

 

[jaxs]

Like your B2150 JWR ,I've developed some old age issue and my wife has to use broom handles,2x4s and other long handled tools to get me going lots of days.