"Old world craftsmanship" How NOT to pour footings

[n8wrl]

Because the Gen Contractor/ builder was too cheap to rent a porta-potty.

In this case it was particuarly inexcusable - we cordoned off an area for them to work which included a bathroom. There was a sign giving them permission to use it. The builder knew it too. Either they couldn't read the sign (ahem) or it was malicious.

-Brian

 

[EddieWalker]

One really good source on who builds the best homes are the cabinet guys who install them. Trim guys are another good source. The reason these guys are so good is they have to deal with fitting there materials on home that are not square, the walls are not straight and basically, the framing is sloppy. Mirror guys have also told me some horror stories of trying to get there mirrors to hang on walls that were so bowed that they have to remove the sheetrock, or add lumber to the wall to get a flat surface.

There are two types of home builders, those that hire crews to do all the work, and those who do it themselves. I've found that the builders who do the actual building, do the best jobs. Just like Harvey said, when you hire the cheapest people to build something, you get what you pay for.

I have a client who hires crews to build his homes, and from time to time, they will mess up so bad that he calls me in to fix them. I've torn down entire sections of walls and started from scratch to get the windows, doors and walls where the plans say they are supposed to be. I've taken out studs that were too warped to save and just stupid to have put in. Headers that were too small, corners that were not square and lots of walls that were not plumb. The list goes on and on, but the point is that these were all high dollar homes being built by a big local builder that usually puts out some nice homes, but since he's always using different crews, it's just a matter of time until he gets a bad one.

Just to add to that, sometimes it's also the son of the owner of the company that doesn't have a clue, but since his dad owns the company, he runs the show. This only happened once, but the kid was just clueless. He drove the big, brand new truck, spent all day on the phone and considers himself to be quite the big shot. After he was done frameing up the house, his dad came by to take a look. It was a disaster. He called me over and had me fix or redo allot of that house. His kid never showed up while I was working on the house and I have no idea what was said between them, but he paid me cash when I was done and I've never heard from him again.

Eddie

 

[Builder]

Doing all the work yourself is a daunting task and it would be difficult to produce enough work to earn a decent living. I could build an entire home myself, but you'd make so little money and be so exhausted. Let's face it, you need some easy days to make up for the tough ones.

I sub out mechanicals. I believe plumbing, electric and HVAC are better left in the hands of experts in those respective fields.

I also sub out masonry to a very respected local mason I've known for 30 years.

I sub out insulation. Need I say more.

I sub out drywall because of the sheer labor output. No way me and 2 helpers are gonna hang 100-200 sheets. No way we can finish them like my drywall finisher.

I sub out roofing, too. My roofer is the best, far better & faster than me.

I do all my excavation and footings. That way I know the job gets off to a square and level start.

I frame all my additions & houses because I love framing and feel it's the most important phase of the work.

I can't agree the best builders do everything "in-house". Then we'd be a jack of all trades and a master of none. Some phases of the job are better left to experts in their particular trades with careful supervision by me.

What you want is a blend of hands-on work by the builder and a following of quality subcontractors with him.

 

[davidseaquist]

Being a plumbing subcontractor myself. If I see a general contractor and he keeps on using the same subcontractors, on most of his jobs. He has a good relationship with them the subs must feel they are doing a good job at a fair price for the contractor, and the contractor must feel that he is getting good value and quality of work using the same contractor. Also the general contractor is not trying to beat the sub down on prices every job. So the customer gets good quality work in a timely manor form professionals who enjoy their work . Just my opinion David.

 

[Builder]

Being a plumbing subcontractor myself. If I see a general contractor and he keeps on using the same subcontractors, on most of his jobs. He has a good relationship with them the subs must feel they are doing a good job at a fair price for the contractor, and the contractor must feel that he is getting good value and quality of work using the same contractor. Also the general contractor is not trying to beat the sub down on prices every job. So the customer gets good quality work in a timely manor form professionals who enjoy their work . Just my opinion David.

Extremely well said.

 

[emmy71]

One really good source on who builds the best homes are the cabinet guys who install them. Trim guys are another good source. The reason these guys are so good is they have to deal with fitting there materials on home that are not square, the walls are not straight and basically, the framing is sloppy. Mirror guys have also told me some horror stories of trying to get there mirrors to hang on walls that were so bowed that they have to remove the sheetrock, or add lumber to the wall to get a flat surface.

Try hanging wallpaper with vertical stripes on walls that aren't plumb.

Terry

 

[mjncad]

Might sound like I hate contractors but I don't. Just the bad ones being discussed.

My brother-in-law has a successful home handyman and small projects business in which he does it all. Does that mean he can tackle large jobs? No; but he has found a good niche making a decent living.

One day we were discussing contractors and other related matters including licensing. He and I have seen so much shoddy work done by licensed contractors that he told me he didn't want to be called a contractor, and considered the term insulting. I consider my brother-in-law a craftsman, especially when can do woodworking and related projects.

It's too bad the term contractor has the same negative connotation as politician, lawyer, car salesman, etc.

 

[mjncad]

Usually the small builder who throws up a home here or there builds a better home since he's a small guy trying to make a name for himself.

If only the clown (small builder) who built our house and others in the neighborhood felt that way Builder. Unfortunately our clown (politest term I can use for him) is just the opposite.

 

[mjncad]

Builder:

It sounds like you have done a good job of walking the tightrope of finding good sub-contractors you can trust and still maintain control over the areas of a house's construction where you can do the work yourself to your standards.

Not many are able to do that.

I'd say good sub-contractors are like good doctors, dentists, hair cutters, etc in that once you find a good one...stick with them. My doctor and dentist are anything but convenient for me; but they are good, I like them, and they are worth the trip. Fortunately I don't need to see them very often. I've been going to same woman to cut what's left of my hair for 12-years now. She too is not convenient to where I live; but she's good, doesn't overcharge, is fun to talk to, and is easy on the eyes. In any case, I combine errands into one trip when I have to see any of these people for their respective services.

 

[bucmeister]

Interesting read. It caught my eye because we are planning a master suite addition on our current house. It would seem that the bottom line on all the issues discussed, good and bad, boils down to "work ethics", which is or has become a rarity it would seem. Say what you want, but very few workers truly go to the job each day determined to do the best job they can.

Trade unions were a needed entity at one time, but it seems now to be more about job protection in spite of work ethic and quality, giving many the same kind of attitude that we see in the college professors with tenur, "I'm can do as I please because I am untouchable". Look at the trouble they are having getting rid of that clown Ward Churchhill in Colorado, falsified credentials and all!! When we see or hear of shoddy work the blame always falls on the contractor's shoulders because that is the burden of the position, but if the worker he hired "in good faith" to do the job fails to do so then it is that worker that is shoddy.

Example, we watch over our kids early years of school to make sure they do the home work, class work, study for tests etc, but when they get to high school we back off with the checking everything they do because we feel we should not have to watch over every assignment, then off to college for even less oversight, because at some point they are supposed to take on the "responsibility" to do the job right.

This is just my long winded rambling way of saying that in my opinion it is a societal issue of the loss of pride in a job done right. Now days we see and hear "that's good enough" as acceptible job effort, instead of "there is no way that job could be done any more perfectly". We are reaping the rewards of a society that has grown up hearing the phsyco-babble that "perfectionism" is "**** retentive" and is therefore a bad thing and we should accept "best effort" as "job well done". This from the same person that would likely throw a screaming fit if the seam on their granite counter top varies by a 1/4" on a 6 foot run.

We all look for bargains. I have never seen a thread titled "Where do I find the most expensive tractor, equipment, barn, tractor shed, etc".

Sorry for the rambling on, but this issue of shoddy work and poor work ethic is an epidemic in the country if not the world and apparently is one of my "buttons" because of my **** retentive perfectionistic ways.