One step closer to permanent wood heat ban in California?

[bigtiller]

I don't know how many people have breathing difficulties such as bronchitis, COPD, asthma, emphysema and so on but I imagine they all would all enjoy living in a smoke free neighborhood.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

Internally, the agency has said the real issue is an inspector must "Witness" the smoke to issue a citation and this the agency says is proving difficult... imagine actually having to see the crime as a condition of issuing a citation?

That problem exists with the enforcement of any law. Hence the bans on high performance vehicles, firearms, drugs, you name it. Just because a few can not be trusted to behave, the rest of society loses.

How bout this: create a fine structure such that enough money is generated from enforcement to cover enforcement costs. I imagine that would radically increase fines and people could no longer afford to be scofflaws. It wouldn't take many such citations in a given neighborhood to start a wave of compliance, even if it meant purchasing a new EPA stove and dry firewood. It sure has worked for coal fired power plants...

Of course that only works when the laws themselves are just and reasonable. In the case of polluting stoves, the smoke is pretty obvious and has proven health effects, so most folks would deem the restrictions reasonable.

 

[KennyG]

I did a little poking around and found that the real problem with the EPA rules will come in 5 years when they drop the limits by a factor of 3. It sounds good to say current stoves are available to meet the EPA rules but I don't think they meet the next step rules. The ones that do will be prohibitively expensive for low and moderate income people.

I also read a number of news articles about the rules and they generally include interviews with people who are bothered by smoke from neighbors stoves. It appears these are generally the outside wood burners which, in my experience, are smoke machines for some reason. I don't have any downwind neighbors but when I'm outside I have to look at the chimney to see that the stove is burning because there is no odor and generally no visible smoke, only heat waves. I wonder how many of the complaints are caused by a small number of badly operated or maintained stoves.

 

[MacLawn]

My problem is that I've run out of countries to emigrate to! My ancestors left the old countries because of gubmint mess like this.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

And another epa invasion into our lives that I read last week. The epa wants to limit the amount of time you take showers in a hotel. The article said most hotel systems are equipped to monitor this without too much modification.
Dave

Well, that's just lovely... I spend half my life in a motel room, and moan and groan on the shower head restrictions. But guess what?, Carry a small set of vise grips, and my own shower head, and no more problems... I suppose I must now be some sort of criminal...

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Another way to put it...

Regulators are shifting away from pollution and going after possession... possession of a chimney!

The new law targets fireplace ownership... and under penalty of law forces removal at the owner's expense.

No need to actually cause pollution to violate the pollution laws.

Might as well throw out an extreme example since I'm here...

My grandmother bought her home new in 1959 and has NEVER used her fireplace once for a fire EVER... she uses it for her plants and has the most beautiful garden growing in her living room...

Why should she be forced to remove or otherwise alter this benign architectural feature of her home?

Guilty by association... A non used fireplace is no different than a gun. Put it in someone's hands, and it becomes a killing machine...We must at all cost control both. (Being sarcastic here)

 

[TCJatko]

I want to make sure I understand;
So the clean air people want to ban wood burning in a controlled burn. (fireplace/woodstove) And replace it with the out of control wild fires that will now have much more fuel since we cannot collect wood and burn in our stoves any more. I'm not sure I can see the logic in this, I need more education. One way or another the wood is going to burn. Heating our homes or larger wild fires.

You're confused. You somehow conflate regulatory rule making with common sense and real-world considerations.

 

[TCJatko]

Well, that's just lovely... I spend half my life in a motel room, and moan and groan on the shower head restrictions. But guess what?, Carry a small set of vise grips, and my own shower head, and no more problems... I suppose I must now be some sort of criminal...

Confession is good for the soul. Turn yourself in to the water Nazis.

 

[Texas Dawg]

One of the things that my sister and I joke about is who will get the old non restricted flow shower heads from our parents home when it comes time to sell it.

 

[dave1949]

I did a little poking around and found that the real problem with the EPA rules will come in 5 years when they drop the limits by a factor of 3. It sounds good to say current stoves are available to meet the EPA rules but I don't think they meet the next step rules. The ones that do will be prohibitively expensive for low and moderate income people.

This stove:
Product Guide Detail | Avalon Firestyles

Made by Travis Industries based in Mukilteo, WA
Travis Industries | House of Fire - Home

Burns cordwood, non-catalytic, 2.0 grams per hour emissions. It is line number 813, page 50, on this list of EPA certified stoves:
http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2013-08/documents/certifiedwood.pdf

It can be bought here for $2,188. That's within an acceptable range for a decent stove.
Rainier Wood Stove With Pedestal Base

It meets the year 2020 Step 2 requirements of 2.0 grams per hour:
FACT SHEET: Summary of Requirements for Woodstoves and Pellet Stoves | Controlling Air Pollution from Residential Wood Heaters | US EPA

Emissions Limits for New Woodstoves and Pellet Stoves
Step 1 (Now): For all stoves without current EPA certification
4.5 grams per hour of operation for catalytic and noncatalytic stoves
Limit is for crib testing. If tested with cordwood, emissions test method must be approved, and stoves must meet crib wood limit.
60 days after final rule is published in the Federal Register.

Step 2 (2020): All woodstoves and pellet stoves
2.0 grams per hour for catalytic and noncatalytic stoves, if emissions are tested using cribs
Alternative limit: 2.5 grams per hour, if tested with cord wood; method must be approved
5 years after the effective date of the final rule.


How difficult or expensive can it be? I see a lot of good stoves listed that meet the new 4.5 grams per hour requirements now but will have some work to do by 2020 to get down to 2.0 or 2.5 (depending on the test method used).