Only SF would pull this stunt!

RanchMan · Jun 30, 2002

Re: Only SF would pull this!

MossRoad -

I won't expound my beliefs here as I have been typing too much on the "Pledge" thread as it is, but I did want to ask if you could clarify something for me.

"...if I go to a public event and say the pledge, but don't say "under god", I get dirty looks from the crowd."

and

"...So I explain myself to the judge and the crowd in the courtroom gasps. “He doesn’t believe in god! That’s terrible!”
"

Have both these incidents actually happened to you, or was this an example of what you believe would happen? In the big scheme of my view on the subject (which I talk about in the Pledge thread), the answer doesn't really affect my opinion one way or the other -- I was just curious.

MossRoad · Jul 1, 2002

Re: Only SF would pull this!

Yes, it happens to me. Although I cannot recall the last time that I was at an event that they said the pledge( which they should say more often, in my opinion ). Now, don't get me wrong, I don't make a big deal of it. But I just don't think "under god" should be in the pledge.

As far as court goes, it has happened twice. Big gasps from the "audience". Dirty looks and a comment or two afterwards. And all I did was promise to tell the truth /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif.

RanchMan · Jul 1, 2002

Re: Only SF would pull this!

Thanks for the clarification. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Golfgar4 · Jul 1, 2002

Re: Only SF would pull this!

"Big gasps from the "audience"."

I've had the same thing happen at church. When we recite the Apostle's Creed, I say Holy Christian Church 'cause that's what I learned as kid.

But in our hymnals, it says Holy Catholic Church. Boy, do I get the stares when I say that!! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

The funny thing is, at least to me - my church is Lutheran!! Go figure those Norwegian Lutherans! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Now before anybody gets bent out of shape for Norwegian or Lutheran bashing - I am one on both counts - so I can say it! /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

MossRoad · Jul 1, 2002

Re: Only SF would pull this!

Hee hee... I was raised Catholic. 12 years of Catholic school. Seriously considered becoming a priest until about age 16. Made some decisions. Decided to stay Catholic until I was 18, because it was what my parents thought was the right way and it was their house, etc... Turned 18, told them thanks, but have changed my beliefs and gave them the reasons why. They were very nice about it and agreed with my thought process. We remained close and happy and never argued about it.

I married a Catholic girl. We were married in the Catholic church. The priest had no problem doing the ceremony. He knew my beliefs and my wife’s. He knew that we thought it out( we had dated for 5 years). I agreed to raise our kids Catholic with the condition that we would not hide from them the fact that I am no longer Catholic. I help them learn their prayers and studies, etc… Every so often as the 9 year old gets older, she asks me why I am no longer Catholic or my thoughts on some aspect of her faith. As she gets older, my answers get more detailed as I see fit. She doesn’t have any problem with it at all. She prays for me often and I appreciate it. I occasionally accompany them to church on special occasions( Easter, Christmas, holy days), or just to hear my 9 year old sing with the choir. However, I do not say the prayers. I stand in quiet respect with my hand on my daughter’s shoulder. I’ll occasionally join in the singing because I like the songs. I enjoy seeing a group of people celebrating their faith. It is just something that I don’t believe in. It is just that simple.

Man do I get the occasional dirty look for not praying or participating in the sacraments. Some of these folks have never talked to me. For all they know, I could be mute but have never bothered to ask, yet they still give me those looks. And in a church, of all places! Anyway, I don't wish them any ill will. Nor do I wish anyone any ill will for wanting to keep "under god" in the pledge of allegiance. It is just my opinion that it doesn't belong in a pledge to our great country. Others' opinions might be different, and I can live with that.

Bird · Jul 1, 2002

Re: Only SF would pull this!

in our hymnals, it says Holy Catholic Church

Is that "Catholic" with a capital C or a lower case C? I thought it was a lower case C meaning the universal church while a capital C would denote the Roman Catholic faith.

Golfgar4 · Jul 1, 2002

Re: Only SF would pull this!

"Is that "Catholic" with a capital C or a lower case C?"

DOH!/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

I never even thought about that Bird! And I never asked anyone either. But you are correct - it is lower case.

Even though it slipped past me, it makes it even odder that people would get upset if they recognized that the words catholic and christian would be interchangeable. Just goes to show you that the people who are getting upset don't understand what it means themselves!

Thanks! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Golfgar4 · Jul 1, 2002

Re: Only SF would pull this!

Dave,

I can understand where you're coming from. My daughter has some of the same feelings and viewpoints as you do. I understand and respect her beliefs. I'm proud of the way she lives her life and the values she believes in.

Unfortunately. my wife is having a real hard time with this. I think most of the TBN'ers have figured out that even though I'm made a few jokes about my wife, and wives in general, she is the most important thing in my life. But this thing is causing us some problems. She can't seem to understand how I can be so accepting of our daughter's lack of faith. I try to explain that it is just a different kind of faith than ours, whatever it is or isn't. My wife seems to think that we did something wrong in our upbringing. I explain that that's not the case. Our daughter has simply examined and reviewed everything that was ever taught to her, and for whatever reason, has decided to believe in things somewhat differently than we do. That doesn't make her a bad person.

Anyway, I know we'll get through this "bump" in the road. Just wanted you to know that there are many people who do understand what you believe, or don't believe in./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

MossRoad · Jul 1, 2002

Re: Only SF would pull this!

I'm proud of the way she lives her life and the values she believes in.

You can't ask for more than that, now can you? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

That's one of my main concerns; how will my children turn out? So far, so good. 9 and 4 year olds are both great kids. Although my friends that survived teenagers say I haven't seen anything yet /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird · Jul 1, 2002

Re: Only SF would pull this!

Garry, I was raised a Baptist, but married a Methodist (you know that's a Baptist that's afraid of water - and my wife is/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif), so I eventually became a Methodist. And the first time in the Methodist Church when they recited the Apostle's Creed, I sure wondered about that word "catholic" in there, so I had to do some checking. And the first time my mother visited a Methodist Church with us, she didn't like that word either./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

I worked on Sundays for many years and got completely out of the habit of going to church. And when we were much younger and our oldest daughter was 7 years old, she had to have some minor surgery and spend a night in the hospital (St. Paul's). At the registration desk, the clerk asked about our religious affiliation and I, quite honestly but laughingly, told her I was raised a Baptist, my wife was raised a Methodist, but had been attending an Episcopalian church with her aunt and uncle when I met her, that because of my job we hadn't been going to church, but that our daughters had been attending a Methodist Church with the next door neighbors.

That night a Nun came into the room to talk to our daughter and asked if she could help her say her prayers (and did). Then as the Nun was leaving, she leaned over and whispered something to my wife. After she left, I asked my wife what she said. My wife said the Nun told her, "It really doesn't matter what church ya'll go to, but ya'll need to get together!"/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I still wonder what the clerk put on that registration form./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif