Opening up a spring with a track-hoe

[pacerron]

I have several steel culverts from with diameters of 3.5' to 5'. See photo.
My plan #1 was to put the largest one in dig it out, put in next, dig it out etc....and then put gravel in the bottom.

Don,
I sure don't know anything about Texas stone. Up here we would call the aggregate in your picture... limestone. Our gravel comes from rivers of past centuries and present rivers. It is irregular in shape but somewhat round in shape.
What it is called doesn't matter. The difference is that gravel does not pack together under pressure so it allows the water to continue to come up into your round culverts from underneath. Limestone or sharp cornered crushed stone packs together and forms somewhat of a block.
That may be your intention?
Ron

 

[bindian]

Don,
I am missing something here. I don't understand why you can't cut the ground down beside the spring/culvert with your backhoe. It looks to be a shallower slope than what the Big RED Beast is on in this photo.
hugs, Brandi

 

[txdon]

Brandi, The ground is flat above the culvert, but it is 8' up and 6' over. My 9' BH will not reach inside the culvert. Next week I will try to cut a landing closer without falling in. The pond rose another 2" overnight, but the flow seems to be decreasing.

pacerron, That is white rock - 3/4 inch, it is not limestone. Around Austin there is nothing but limestone and this is not that.

 

[pacerron]

Don,
Thanks for the explanation. As long as it is not sharp triangular edged, like crushed limestone, it should not pack so tight as to block most of the seepage upward.
Won't you have to remove the 5' ring to dig deeper for the smaller rings, put the smallest in first, fill around it to a few inches from the top, set the next on that fill, fill around it and then put your 5' ring on that, then add some gravel to the bottom and in each void between the ring diameters?
How deep a hole from a one landing side position of your tractor can you get with your Boom, Dipper Stick, and Bucket? Looks like from your pipe pictures you will need about a 6 foot deep hole if you have 6" or so vertical lap on your culvert pieces.
Looks like a fun project but one that will need caution in a wet sandy location for your safety.
Keep posting pictures as you go. It will be interesting to see how your final landscape turns out.
Ron

 

[bindian]

Brandi, The ground is flat above the culvert, but it is 8' up and 6' over. My 9' BH will not reach inside the culvert. Next week I will try to cut a landing closer without falling in. The pond rose another 2" overnight, but the flow seems to be decreasing.

pacerron, That is white rock - 3/4 inch, it is not limestone. Around Austin there is nothing but limestone and this is not that.

Don,
So it is to the right of the culvert in this photo where you need to put the backhoe? Where the steep slope is?
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...9586-opening-up-spring-track-hoe-spring10.jpg
The other side is too soft, I gather.
I wonder also if you can wait (water raising) for the dozer or need to do this ASAP and dig that slope out with your backhoe? Can you dig it loose and doze it out of the way with your loader bucket?

If my knee was not waiting for surgery.............I would bring the Big RED Beast up and unslope that slope for you.:laughing:

At the least we need more photos.:thumbsup:
hugs, Brandi

 

[txdon]

Pacerron, I was thinking the way you described it to be the easiest. I can dig down 9' so I will have to get pretty close and low to the hole. That is where the problem comes in. The sides are very steep and the lower I go the less stable the soil is. I might only get two culverts in.

Another consideration is that this spring is at the bottom of a very sandy hill. The sand is like beach sand and will erode easily and fill up the spring, so I have to watch the drainage of any angle cut ins and deflect the water around the hole with berms.

Brandi, The sides are really cut steep, and by cutting them some parts will be vertical and unstable in the rain. This will be fun and a challenge. (I may still be working on it after your surgery)

I'll post pics of the progress. Here is an overall picture from on top of the hill when the track-hoe was here. The border fence is in the tree line on the right, right up against the spring pond.

 

[bindian]

Pacerron, I was thinking the way you described it to be the easiest. I can dig down 9' so I will have to get pretty close and low to the hole. That is where the problem comes in. The sides are very steep and the lower I go the less stable the soil is. I might only get two culverts in.

Another consideration is that this spring is at the bottom of a very sandy hill. The sand is like beach sand and will erode easily and fill up the spring, so I have to watch the drainage of any angle cut ins and deflect the water around the hole with berms.

Brandi, The sides are really cut steep, and by cutting them some parts will be vertical and unstable in the rain. This will be fun and a challenge. (I may still be working on it after your surgery)

I'll post pics of the progress. Here is an overall picture from on top of the hill when the track-hoe was here. The border fence is in the tree line on the right, right up against the spring pond.

Rain? What Rain?:confused3:
hugs, Brandi

 

[jinman]

Don, you mentioned that your pond filling seemed to slow a bit after the first couple of feet. I think that's normal because of the angled sides and increased surface area as the pond fills. Were you able to look at the water inside the culvert. Is it clearing any? With the flow you are getting, I'd expect that water to become crystal clear within a couple of days depending on the amount of clay in your soil. We put a whiskey barrel in a spring when I was a kid and the water turned clear in the barrel in two days. There's something magical about watching clear water bubble up out of the ground.

 

[pacerron]

Pacerron, I was thinking the way you described it to be the easiest. I can dig down 9' so I will have to get pretty close and low to the hole. That is where the problem comes in. The sides are very steep and the lower I go the less stable the soil is. I might only get two culverts in.

Another consideration is that this spring is at the bottom of a very sandy hill. The sand is like beach sand and will erode easily and fill up the spring, so I have to watch the drainage of any angle cut ins and deflect the water around the hole with berms. .

Don,
If you have tested the actual depth capability of your hoe I imagine you found the 9' depth to only be a spot about the size of the bucket, or a small arc that size without moving the tractor around and there usually has to be a slit back toward the tractor for the boom as you are digging; then the tractor has to be moved almost over the hole to get the final depth. I have had a hoe attachment similar to yours since 1990 and have done some things with it that I wouldn't even attemp today, as a result of the scary situations I got myself into in the past.
Slippery mud slopes and soft sand enbankments as shown in your pictures
would probably convince me to wait for a dryer conditions, if possible, or use a different method such as driving a pipe into the sand seep.
Is the arrow in my attached copy of your photo the sand hill where the water is seeping out? Are the slopes to the right or left that look like clay grease where you intend to make your flat spot to dig the hole deeper?
If you do proceed now you might need some plates or timbers under your stands to spread the support base..
If you have lots of backhoe experience I apologize for my butting in. Just be careful in any case.
Ron

 

[txdon]

Pacerron, Keep the comments coming. I'm looking for anything to make this job productive and safe. There will be other people maybe years from now who will learn from these post so even if I know something but haven't specifically wrote about it your contributions will help them.

I have some timbers and 12"X6" reinforced concrete curbing for the stabilizers and/or tires if needed. I'll check the upper spoils later to see If I can start without getting stuck (like friday). I also have a pallet of flat stones to place by the culverts and surrounding embankment to make it look nice and natural as the finishing touch (in the fall).

The drier weather is here with the next 7 days sunny and over 100 degrees. No rain last night only lightning in the east and west horizons.

Jim, the water flowing is now clear just like you predicted. I'm not letting it accumulate in the culvert just yet, it's running under the lower edge so sand will not accumulate inside the culvert (less to dig out).

It looks like I will have at least a week (or more) before the pond level rises to the culvert and the project will have to come to a stop or I'll have to start pumping. Any small gas water pump recommendations?