Opinion on installing larger sliding door

[MarkV]

Rich thanks for the photos, they made things much clearer. Nice house by the way.

I’d agree with what the others have said about what needs to be done to replace the header. You will for sure want to build some temporary support to carry the load before removing the header. It still surprises me the original builder used 2x6 for that header.

Just to bounce another idea around. Have you considered French doors that are designed to open outwards? It would give you the wider pass through and could be put in the original opening.

Hope you will document the process and let us know how it goes.

MarkV

 

[ray66v]

I think I'd loose the decorative beams and blow the interior wall out to meet or nearly meet the outside wall. The outside wall is already headered, (you could have 2 big sliding doors), and you pick up looks like 50-60 sq. ft. of interior space.

 

[RichT]

Superd, I think the final decision on the LVL configuration/notching will be driven by whats available from local lumber yard. Is it OK to drill holes in LVL to bolt together multiple boards? One article I read on LVL said doing that might compromise the strength of the lumber.

Mark, yes we did consider the french doors, but the slider is the preferred arrangement, a bigger one

Ray, wow, thats a little beyond my meager construction skills, but interesting idea.

Thx again all.

 

[hitekcountry]

Another thought, run a 4x12 in the attic area as a strong back and hang- strap the existing header to that. No need to remove the old header.

 

[davitk]

Rich, drilling and bolting a multi ply LVL will actually increase its strength vs. nailing or screwing.

 

[Superduper]

......Is it OK to drill holes in LVL to bolt together multiple boards? One article I read on LVL said doing that might compromise the strength of the lumber.

Obviously, any hole drilled in an engineered peice of lumber is going to have some, if small effect. Generally speaking, the warning on drilling holes refer to larger diameter holes intended to accommodate wiring, plumbing, and other installation needs. I certainly don't recommend drilling any hole larger than absolutely needed to accomplish the bolting together of the beams. A high quality adhesive between the laminations will help keep the assembled beam slightly more rigid, especially since steel-wood has less frictional qualities than wood-wood. Dimpling the steel plate surface with a lot of center punch marks could be of value in increasing the clamped frictional action between the surfaces. But in all fairness, if these minor steps were needed to effect a make-it-or-break-it difference, then the beam would have been woefully inadequate to begin with.

One thing to absolutely avoid, however, is notching of the beam, especially on the tension side. That could have a terrible effect. Think of a plastic bag, very strong, but nick or compromise the bag and it becomes a house of cards.

 

[RichT]

One thing to absolutely avoid, however, is notching of the beam, especially on the tension side.

To avoid me misintrepreting this warning - you're talking about the LVL header? Would grade 5, say 3/8", bolts be OK for joining the LVL planks? Spacing?

 

[Superduper]

Yes, the lvl beam. The 4x6 beam should be ok to notch at the end and installing standard hangers should eliminate any tendency to crack at the notch. If the notch was also cut with a small radius at the corner, this will also reduce tendency to crack. The simplest way to add the radius is to drill a hole at the corner and then make the cuts to the drilled hole. For clarification purposes, notches sometimes could result in a tendency for the beam to crack/split at the corner of the notch and run from the corner of the notch length wise. There are a few methods that are prescribed to reduce or prevent this tendency which are to add brackets, add a lag bolt at the bottom to "pull" or "hang" the non-hung portion from. But again, the simplest is to install a standard framing hanger which allows the beam to be supported at the very bottom as opposed to being hung only from the cut corner. After the sheetrock is installed, what left of the hanger that is exposed can be painted dark brown and will probably be hardly noticeable.

With respects to the bolts used, I am not an engineer but personally, I would not hesitate to use grade 5 bolts. I am presuming that you are going to use many of them? The science of building flitch beams need to be computed all the way down to how many bolts used and their shear strength. You can buy a computer program to do this. Personally, since it does not sound like you are doing this with a permit anyhow, is to use a lot of bolts and be done with it. If you are building a flitch beam with the LVLs, you know that you are going to have bolts protruding on the interior side, right? If you use carriage bolts on the side facing the sheathing, there should be minimal intrusion and the bolts can probably be tightened enough to sink the heads sufficiently. On the other side, however, since the beam is only 1-3/4" to begin with, I don't know if having a couple dozen countersunk holes 1/2" or 3/4" deep is going to affect the structual integrity of the beam.

I would consider "framing" or "trimming" the new slider with huge dark colored lumber which will (1) hide the new extra thick header and (2) match the theme of the roof beams.

 

[davitk]

I am assuming it has been established that those beams are indeed structural, and there are no additional joists. That would mean your header is holding only the weight of the ceiling, which is minimal. The brace you see in the attic would likely be just that, a brace running from the ridge board diagonally to the top plate, and really is transferring little or no load to that wall. That said, a 4x6 LVL header would likely be more than adequate, especially with the addition of exterior structural sheathing; just screw the two halves together. DO NOT notch those beams, you are opening a can of worms that does not need to be opened. And be sure to add that second jack stud to both sides of the new opening. Have fun!

 

[RichT]

And be sure to add that second jack stud to both sides of the new opening. Have fun!

I think I missed your first mention of dual jack studs on each side. Why do you feel this is necessary?