Optimal Backhoe Bucket?

[kcfarm]

Would a MX5100 and a BH92 back hoe have any problems digging into clay with a 24" toothed bucket?

Thanks.

 

[Carl Bert]

As with anything, it depends on what it is being used for. I have a B26 with a 12" bucket. The reason I chose a 12" was because I live in any area that has A LOT of rock (ROCKland county), and I am the type that would rather go with a smaller bucket, which will put less strain on the backhoe itself. If I lived in an area like Long Island (sandy soil), I would have gone with an 18" or even a 24".

Your machine has 5825 lbs of bucket force, compared to my 4211 lbs, so putting an 18" on yours would probably be the equivilent of the 12" on mine. I would go with the 18" if your dealing with rock, otherwise a 24"

 

[Carl Bert]

I traded the B21 at 1,800 hours for a slightly used (180 hours) B26 and had to take it with the Quick Attach 18" bucket. I knew I would need the narrowest bucket and so purchased the 12" QA but baulked at spending ~1,300 for another 24" bucket. That was when I discovered that you can by the QA plates from Kubota for about $165. I purchased a set, cut the B21 ears off the 24" bucket and welded the QA plates on and had a 24" bucket for my B26. In two years I have not used the 18" bucket - the 24" and 12" provide the flexibility I require.

This year I plan to add a 24" or 30" ditching (no teeth) bucket to my collection. Is anyone interested in a slightly used 18" QA bucket for a B26?

First, what are these QA plates you are talking about and what are they used for?
Second, how much do you want for the 18" QA bucket?

 

[My Hoe]

As with anything, it depends on what it is being used for. I have a B26 with a 12" bucket. The reason I chose a 12" was because I live in any area that has A LOT of rock (ROCKland county), and I am the type that would rather go with a smaller bucket, which will put less strain on the backhoe itself. If I lived in an area like Long Island (sandy soil), I would have gone with an 18" or even a 24".

Your machine has 5825 lbs of bucket force, compared to my 4211 lbs, so putting an 18" on yours would probably be the equivilent of the 12" on mine. I would go with the 18" if your dealing with rock, otherwise a 24"

Carl,

I too live in ROCKland County (a.k.a. "The ARMPIT of New York State"). I plan on getting a B2630 with an 8' Woods hoe (the BH-80X "Groundbreaker"). I too wanted a 12" bucket, for the reasons you state, but Woods told me they wouldn't sell the 12" IF I also wanted the Woods Thumb (a $750. option, btw--and that's a MECHANICAL thumb!). They said the 12" bucket will not line up correctly with the Thumb, and could "cause you to bend the thumb, bucket or dipperstick." They said "If you want a thumb, you must buy a 16" bucket or wider."

Do Kubota hoes have this issue with their thumbs?

Anyone know of anyone running an 8' Woods Hoe/Thumb with a 12" bucket?

 

[lhansman]

Carl

If you are familiar with the quick attach hoe buckets for the B26, the Quick Attach plates are approximately 1/2" thick steel that are about 10" square as I recall. Three of the edges are straight and the other edge has the contours necessary to hook on to and insert the pin through for the B26 QA end on the hoe. You can purchase these and fabricate your own QA device or as I did modify them to fit an existing device. Once I cut the B21 ears off my old 24" bucket, I used one of my other B26 buckets to assist in determining how the plates should be positioned on the 24" bucket, marked them and then cut the edge opposite the QA one to fit my bucket. An hour or so of welding later and I had a B26 24" QA bucket.

I live an hour northwest of Toronto and in Canada an 18" bucket new is around $1,000. I would be happy to let it go for $500 if you are interested.

Wrt to digging in rocks, there are times when trying to extricate large rocks it is nice to have a 12" bucket to minimize the mess as you dig around the ostruction. However I live in an area with lots of limestone rocks and boulders and I have done a lot of digging on my property and others in the village with my 24" bucket with no problems. As Doelake pointed out the 24" bucket is a lot better at scooping up good sized rocks than a small bucket for those of us that don't have a thumb yet. Despite that there are so many rocks in my area that I have spent so much time trying to get out of a hole and positioned where I want them that I will be adding a thumb to my B26 in the spring.

 

[doelake]

I remember moving granite boulders approx 5' square (750-1000lbs +) to landscape gardens on my property...trick is to flip and position them to cradle them against the boom for transport until they could be placed....the thumb (whether it's mechanical or hydraulic) increases the ability to move anything from logs to rocks like a hand...the larger the bucket, the greater the profile....cup your hand and place our thumb in the center of the four fingers, now try it with two fingers...see what I mean? Because of the cost, it would be better to start with a larger bucket and downsize (if necessary) instead of wishing for a larger bucket after the fact.
Hey lhansman, we used to live in Erin, the limestone rock is beautiful in that area, fun to work with...now we live on Canadian Shield, if we can't move it we have to blast it:thumbsup:

 

[Carl Bert]

Carl,

I too live in ROCKland Country (a.k.a. "The ARMPIT of New York State"). I plan on getting a B2630 with an 8' Woods hoe (the BH-80X "Groundbreaker"). I too wanted a 12" bucket, for the reasons you state, but Woods told me they wouldn't sell the 12" IF I also wanted the Woods Thumb (a $750. option, btw--and that's a MECHANICAL thumb!). They said the 12" bucket will not line up correctly with the Thumb, and could "cause you to bend the thumb, bucket or dipperstick." They said "If you want a thumb, you must buy a 16" bucket or wider."

Do Kubota hoes have this issue with their thumbs?

Anyone know of anyone running an 8' Woods Hoe/Thumb with a 12" bucket?

Thats an interesting question. This is my first backhoe and have nothing to compare to, as far as how the thumb is supposed to line up. The dealer didn't say anything to me about that, but he is not too sharp, to say the least, and would pretty much sell you anything you asked for.

If you have a trailer, you should look into taking a road trip south, where you can save yourself a good amount of money. On a B26 the savings was well over 4 thousand, which IMO is well worth the trip. On a B2630 it would probably be a little less.

If you don't have a trailer yet, you could always rent one, or better yet you could borrow mine, it just sits there anyway. Where in Rockland are you? I'm in Stony Point.

Now you have me curious about this thumb. I think I'll make a few phone calls. I guess at worst, I will have to buy a larger bucket for when I actually use the thumb.

 

[Carl Bert]

Carl

If you are familiar with the quick attach hoe buckets for the B26, the Quick Attach plates are approximately 1/2" thick steel that are about 10" square as I recall. Three of the edges are straight and the other edge has the contours necessary to hook on to and insert the pin through for the B26 QA end on the hoe. You can purchase these and fabricate your own QA device or as I did modify them to fit an existing device. Once I cut the B21 ears off my old 24" bucket, I used one of my other B26 buckets to assist in determining how the plates should be positioned on the 24" bucket, marked them and then cut the edge opposite the QA one to fit my bucket. An hour or so of welding later and I had a B26 24" QA bucket.

I live an hour northwest of Toronto and in Canada an 18" bucket new is around $1,000. I would be happy to let it go for $500 if you are interested.

Wrt to digging in rocks, there are times when trying to extricate large rocks it is nice to have a 12" bucket to minimize the mess as you dig around the ostruction. However I live in an area with lots of limestone rocks and boulders and I have done a lot of digging on my property and others in the village with my 24" bucket with no problems. As Doelake pointed out the 24" bucket is a lot better at scooping up good sized rocks than a small bucket for those of us that don't have a thumb yet. Despite that there are so many rocks in my area that I have spent so much time trying to get out of a hole and positioned where I want them that I will be adding a thumb to my B26 in the spring.

Thanks for the info on the plates. As far as the bucket is concerned, I just got off the phone with my dealer and he quoted me $700 tax included for a new 18" QA bucket. So $500 for a used one, plus another 1 or 150 for delivery, what am I really saving $50. I might be willing to do $350 or $400 depending on shipping costs. Thanks

 

[My Hoe]

Thats an interesting question. This is my first backhoe and have nothing to compare to, as far as how the thumb is supposed to line up. The dealer didn't say anything to me about that, but he is not too sharp, to say the least, and would pretty much sell you anything you asked for.

If you have a trailer, you should look into taking a road trip south, where you can save yourself a good amount of money. On a B26 the savings was well over 4 thousand, which IMO is well worth the trip. On a B2630 it would probably be a little less.

If you don't have a trailer yet, you could always rent one, or better yet you could borrow mine, it just sits there anyway. Where in Rockland are you? I'm in Stony Point.

Now you have me curious about this thumb. I think I'll make a few phone calls. I guess at worst, I will have to buy a larger bucket for when I actually use the thumb.

Carl,

Thanks for your prompt response.

Just to be clear--the problem with a "too small bucket" and the thumb was a WOODS problem--i.e., I don't believe there is the same issue with a Kubota hoe. I was looking at a WOODS hoe, WOODS bucket and WOODS thumb.

The Woods techs said that the 12" is "too narrow, so that the teeth on the bucket DO NOT "MESH" with the teeth on the thumb--rather, they MEET or "gnash together" (my words, not theirs, but that's their point, so far as I could determine.)

I asked why this would bend anything, since the same amt. of force is being exerted by the bucket curling cylinder, regardless of bucket/thumb interface. They were not able to articulate a reason that I could comprehend, despite my fairly versatile mind (if I do say so myself--LOL).

Upon further reflection, however, I may have sussed it out myself, re: the BUCKET teeth. Here goes:

Perhaps when the bucket teeth INTERLOCK or MESH, as opposed to MEETING or "GNASHING," one risks bending a bucket tooth because the teeth are not as strong as the bucket itself? (I have my doubts about this bending a BUCKET tooth, actually, either, because I'm sure the entire hoe/machine combo puts more strain on the bucket teeth, WHILE DIGGING, than does the curl cylinder alone, while "thumbing"....

In either case, I STILL don't see how this could bend a THUMB tooth, as the pressure on the end of the thumb teeth is the same as if the thumb had grabbed a rock, rather than intersected a bucket tooth, no?

I'm near Suffern, NY. Please PM me with where I could do, down "south," for potentially-better pricing.

And thank you very much for your kind offer of the use of your trailer!!! I would be very interested in renting/borrowing your trailer for such an adventure, AND for when we move, in the next year (only about 45 min. away, we suspect). I will have the B2630 to move (once) and many rounds of seasoned, bucked-to-length firewood. Hence the need for the thumb.

Does your trailer have "sides" on it, of any kind (mesh or ?) so that I could load more than one level of firewood rounds? Is it open deck or a flat, continuous surface, so the rounds wouldn't fall through if they came unstrapped? :shocked:

If you trust me not to scratch your trailer with an 18" long by 25+" diameter firewood rounds, I'd certainly return it promptly, washed and would be happy to pay rental for it's use. Something tells me your rates will be better than my local tool rental pirates! LOL

And I am looking at a used machine with a Kubota hoe, so I will be interested to learn if this "too small bucket/tooth interference thing" is unique to Woods or if I need to worry about it with a Kubota hoe, as well.

Thanks again, and all the best.

Peter

 

[Carl Bert]

Carl,

Thanks for your prompt response.

In either case, I STILL don't see how this could bend a THUMB tooth, as the pressure on the end of the thumb teeth is the same as if the thumb had grabbed a rock, rather than intersected a bucket tooth, no?

I'm near Suffern, NY. Please PM me with where I could do, down "south," for potentially-better pricing.

And thank you very much for your kind offer of the use of your trailer!!! I would be very interested in renting/borrowing your trailer for such an adventure, AND for when we move, in the next year (only about 45 min. away, we suspect). I will have the B2630 to move (once) and many rounds of seasoned, bucked-to-length firewood. Hence the need for the thumb.

Does your trailer have "sides" on it, of any kind (mesh or ?) so that I could load more than one level of firewood rounds? Is it open deck or a flat, continuous surface, so the rounds wouldn't fall through if they came unstrapped? :shocked:

If you trust me not to scratch your trailer with an 18" long by 25+" diameter firewood rounds, I'd certainly return it promptly, washed and would be happy to pay rental for it's use. Something tells me your rates will be better than my local tool rental pirates! LOL

And I am looking at a used machine with a Kubota hoe, so I will be interested to learn if this "too small bucket/tooth interference thing" is unique to Woods or if I need to worry about it with a Kubota hoe, as well.

Thanks again, and all the best.

Peter

I checked with Kubota and they said there is no problem that they have ever come across, so maybe its just a Woods thing as you said.

The trailer unfortunately has no sides. It is a flat solid metal deck, with the dip in the back for easy loading. If you need it, you can use it. I figure if your on this site AND you live in Rockland, how bad could you be. All I ask in return is that you check the tire pressure and fill it with gas. LOL

To find a dealer, first decide how far you are willing to travel, get the zip for that area, then just input it into the dealer locator on the Kubota site. Everything can be done over the phone. First go to Westchester Tractor up here (by the way thats the best place to buy it if you decide not to take the trip) and pick out what you want and with what options. Get you best price, then start making some phone calls. The hardest part is the trip. If you make a vacation out of it, its that much better.

Good luck and keep me posted. I would be curious to see what the actual savings winds up being after all is said and done. You can always get in touch with me through this site.

 

[My Hoe]

I checked with Kubota and they said there is no problem that they have ever come across, so maybe its just a Woods thing as you said.

The trailer unfortunately has no sides. It is a flat solid metal deck, with the dip in the back for easy loading. If you need it, you can use it. I figure if your on this site AND you live in Rockland, how bad could you be. All I ask in return is that you check the tire pressure and fill it with gas. LOL

To find a dealer, first decide how far you are willing to travel, get the zip for that area, then just input it into the dealer locator on the Kubota site. Everything can be done over the phone. First go to Westchester Tractor up here (by the way thats the best place to buy it if you decide not to take the trip) and pick out what you want and with what options. Get you best price, then start making some phone calls. The hardest part is the trip. If you make a vacation out of it, its that much better.

Good luck and keep me posted. I would be curious to see what the actual savings winds up being after all is said and done. You can always get in touch with me through this site.

Carl,

Thanks for the tip on Westchester Tractor. I've found Arroway Chevrolet (and Kubota, believe it or not--that's a weird franchise combo, right? LOL) to be helpful when researching a used machine NOT at their dealership. IOW, they were pretty generous with their time, for no potential profit, so I've got them workin' up an estimate, but I will definitely call Westchester, given your recommendation--thanks!

In talking to Arroway, I remembered something the Woods' techs said that DID make sense, about why the 12" bucket would create a problem with the Woods' thumb: they said if the teeth "gnashed" as opposed to "meshing," then you would not be able to close down tightly on small items, such as smaller branches, steel pipes, etc.... THAT made sense to me, as I could forsee someone losing control of a steel pipe, then trying to blame Kubota/Woods for selling a thumb assembly that couldn't grip smaller (say, 4-6" diameter stuff?) securely. As I say, that DOES make sense, but the "bending a tooth" argument really didn't add up to me. (Now that I've beaten that horse to death.... LOL).

I will definitely follow your advice, re: getting prices, and then see if taking a trip makes sense. If you don't mind, where did you go when you went "south" and saved $4,000.? I definitely agree that that trip sounds like a money-saver--especially, as you say, if you can combine it with some vacay time.

And lastly, thank you, again, for the offer of the trailer. If and when the time comes, I'll reach out and still if it's still available. But you'll have to give me some pointers on how to fill it up with "gas"--unless, you were talking about the air in the tires? LOL :laughing:

Oh--My F250 has electric trailer brakes set up already--previous owner had a penchant for $300,000. cigarette-type boats (twin, blown 501's at 900hp PER SIDE). Does your trailer have electric brakes? Or surge? Two axles or one? Just curious. I may just rent a landscape trailer, so I can pile the wood two layers high, and if I do that, I won't bother you and I'll just use the rental trailer, but either way, your generous offer is VERY much appreciated!

I'll be in touch on the pricing, once I get it all researched.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Carl Bert]

Carl,

Oh--My F250 has electric trailer brakes set up already--previous owner had a penchant for $300,000. cigarette-type boats (twin, blown 501's at 900hp PER SIDE). Does your trailer have electric brakes? Or surge? Two axles or one? Just curious. I may just rent a landscape trailer, so I can pile the wood two layers high, and if I do that, I won't bother you and I'll just use the rental trailer, but either way, your generous offer is VERY much appreciated!

I'll be in touch on the pricing, once I get it all researched.

All the best,

Peter

The trailer has electric brakes on all wheels, and is a double axle. I sent you a PM on Arroway Tractor. Oh and the "Fill it with gas" comment, was just my way of saying that it won't cost you anything to use it. Like I said, it just sits there anyway.

 

[lhansman]

Carl

Thanks for the offer but at that price I think I'll hang on to the 18" bucket for now. It seems that even though the Canadian $ is at or above par with the US $ we Canadians are still getting the shaft when it comes to pricing in Canada.

Doelake

I have given away more limestone boulders than I can count over the last few years - to me it just looks like concrete when you landscape with it. I grew up in North Bay and my father in law still has property there with many granite ledges, outcroppings and boulders. If you are interested I have attached a few photos of the regrading and granite boulder retaining wall I have been constructing over the last couple of years in my spare time. I just love the variety of colour that you get with granite.

I have wished many times for the added power of an L39/L45 sized machine as many of these boulders are at or above the capacity of my old B21 and even the new B26. The upside is that the B26 gives me the manouverability I need on my small property.

 

[My Hoe]

The trailer has electric brakes on all wheels, and is a double axle. I sent you a PM on Arroway Tractor. Oh and the "Fill it with gas" comment, was just my way of saying that it won't cost you anything to use it. Like I said, it just sits there anyway.

Your trailer sounds nice! Twin axle/four brakes = Less drama/more safety. I like.

My old boat trailer is single axle/no brakes. Happily, the boat's probably less than 2,500 lbs., and even my old F-150 had no problem stopping it. The F-250 has two-piston calipers (per side) up front, so it should be even better.

I liked your "Fill it with gas" joke--I'm normally not "slow" re: jokes but that one got by me--LOL :laughing: It reminds me of the one about the Service Writer who told the lady (not trying to be sexist here, but I didn't write it ) that:

1. Your blinker fluid is low.
2. Your muffler bearing is worn out.

Yeah, I guess some Service Writers get bored at work sometimes, huh? But I rarely did--usually it was too busy and stressful to get bored, so I guess I wasn't working in the right shops. :confused2:

Thank you for the PM--very helpful.

ttys,

Peter

 

[doelake]

lansman, nice job with the granite retaining wall...working with a backhoe sure beats doing it by hand! I like how you positioned the rocks so they "knit" together, natural looking but with "structural integrity"... I bet you had to flip them back and forth and constantly rotate them to get the right "feel", I remember that well.....
and never apologize for the size of your equipment, it's what you can do with it that matters:laughing: and I think you've shown us:thumbsup:

 

[boggen]

lager = better.

but if ya putting in say telephone line, water line, lawn irrigation, network cable or telephone cable. it is nice to have a smaller bucket. and hopefully the smaller bucket has at least a seep hole or 2 in the bucket some were to help allow clay and mud to come out of the bucket easier. vs having to take a shovel to it.

as far as working in a trench. for above, you don't need to be in the trench.

if you were putting in say culverts, ditches, digging a basement, dealing with building a pond. bigger is better.

 

[lhansman]

Thanks Doelake - I have been on vacation for a couple of weeks hence the delayed reply.

Moving the rocks with a backhoe is definitely a lot nicer than pulling and pushing with a tractor and or come-a-long. This is another type of job where I found having multiple buckets handy. I found picking up the rocks with the 24" bucket made them a little more stable when trying to position them (unfortunately I don't have the thumb yet!) but then sometimes you get it almost in place but need to remove some additional dirt around it to get it in it's final position. This is when I love the Quick Attach hoes as I can drop the 24" and throw the 12" on in less than 5 minutes and get rid of some additional material.

It sounds like you too have experience with positioning rocks. It can take half a day just to get five or six of them positioned so they fit together nicely. I had accumulated a total of about 70 tons of granite boulders over a four year period for this project and you could spend a lot of time just finding the correct rock to fit in next. I hope to finally complete it this summer with the balance of the rocks and then my wife will take charge and get the plants started.