Snow Orange on Red

[OldeEnglish]

Yep - That's right where we started 4 pages back - red, orange & blue = same = same = same.
Just to follow up: a while back, I a bought hydraulic rotation kit for a Cub Cadet/Yanmar blower
I used only the motor, hoses (w/needle valve flow restricters ),and the motor gear.
All I had to change was the hose ends from Male to Female for my FEL control
The motor bolted perfectly to my Kubota BX5450 - works like a charm.


While it's not as warm as my former plow truck, it does a way better job..... and no more stacking.

View attachment 413953 View attachment 413955 View attachment 413954

Nice job! How fast does the chute spin? I built one for my Loftness blower and I have it dialed in for 9 second 180 deg turn. I find it a bit slow when turning the full 180 but when blowing it is the perfect speed to put the snow exactly where I want it. Sure beats cranking by hand!

I ended up using a low speed hydraulic motor into a 10:1 gear reducer. Worked out well, it's a bit over kill but prevents any force from creating excess pressure inside the motor. Plus it gave me a way to mount everything with a few pieces of angle iron. Everything cost me $150 less then the kit from Loftness that didn't even include the hoses, that includes a new spool to operate everything.

 

[timbrehse]

OK, I'll bite where'd you pick up that cute little sand spreader and who makes it? Lugging bags of sand a spreading by hand is getting to be a bit old. Though I don't have to do it quite so much with my recently paved driveway, it's been an icy beginning to the winter this year.

Nice job on the hydraulic motor!

Thanks Irvingj,

The Hydraulic setup is great - total was near $200. all in but I have all the unused kit parts on eBay so maybe I'll get a few coins back.
The spreader is an Agi-fab

Agri-Fab SmartSpreader 130 LB Tow Behind Broadcast Spreader | Agri-Fab 45-0463 was the best price I could find.
Works well but I have yet to fabricate a handle extension that I can reach from the seat so I do end up w/ a small pile or 2 when I stop. I have a 3pt receiver hitch & took the ball off one of my mounts - spreader has a typical lawn tractor pin.
I have a steep, paved drive - not using sand. I throw a 40lb bag of whatever snow melt Home Depot has on any given day.
Some is blue, some purple, sometimes the have only brownish salt. If it doesn't feed well I can shake the 3pt up & dwn & get it going.
The blower works so well - scrapes down so nicely - my driveway is bone dry after an hr or 2.
I see people on my (dirt ) road having to park at the bottom of their plowed driveways cause they're ice rinks.
I'm obviously quite pleased w/ my rig - and oh
While I have gear to stay nice & warm & dry this is a better, lighter 'foul weather cab' - 'cause when that wind shifts....

 

[timbrehse]

Also Tim, the small brass round item mounted near the new chute bracket, what is that?

Hey Pixguy- The brass piece you refer to is the forward mount for the manual rotation worm gear.
I'd left it on incase I ever had a problem w/ the hydraulic setup. Make for a quick switch back (Lord forbid!!) to the manual crank handle.
I also wasn't sure how well the motor gear/chute sprocket would hold up. My alt. plan then was to reattach the worm gear, fab a horizontal motor mount & connect the worm gear shaft & the motor shaft via a lovejoy coupler. Can't take credit for the design, I'd seen someone, I believe on this site, post their pics. Thankfully my present setup seems to be holding up well so far. We've had 5 or 6 snowfalls and there doesn't seem to be any discernible wear.

 

[timbrehse]

Nice job! How fast does the chute spin? I built one for my Loftness blower and I have it dialed in for 9 second 180 deg turn. I find it a bit slow when turning the full 180 but when blowing it is the perfect speed to put the snow exactly where I want it. Sure beats cranking by hand!

I ended up using a low speed hydraulic motor into a 10:1 gear reducer. Worked out well, it's a bit over kill but prevents any force from creating excess pressure inside the motor. Plus it gave me a way to mount everything with a few pieces of angle iron. Everything cost me $150 less then the kit from Loftness that didn't even include the hoses, that includes a new spool to operate everything.

Wow OldeEnglish - Nice - that's a pretty HD unit. I think mine does spin a bit faster but not ridiculously so. Tho it was a MacGyver job, the kit was made to rotate a tractor snowblower chute - so even tho the motor is tiny (Smaller size = higher rpm) both hose couplers at the motor end came w/ needle valve flow restrictors to slow it on both sides. Have to consider too I'm @ 23HP and throttled all the way up.
Any real issue I have is operator clumsiness. I'm getting better tho w/ practice. My FEL control likes to bounce out of float so I kinda ride it and of course, if I turn my head, I invariably end up rotating the chute's direction. Needless to say - good thing the chute sprocket is only toothed half way around else I'm sure to have gotten a face full more than once by now.
Speaking of half way around - while I know many here love their 3pt blowers - I couldn't imagine having to snow blow my steep 1/8 mi driveway backing up down hill! My neck hurts thinking about it!

 

[bumperm]

Tim,

A loader valve that bounces out of float is a real pain, been there, fixed that.

If it's a BX series you have (and doubtless this applies to other tractors too), the bottom of the spool valve has the detent function within. They tend to get rusty. Before removing bottom cover nut from spool, mark the bottom most part with a felt tip so you can drill a small drain hole later. Remove the nut with detent function. If you have a lathe handy (doesn't everyone?) it's easy to disassemble and replace the 1/8" locking balls if the originals are damaged, by using the tailstock as a press. I imagine other tools, c-clamps or whatever, could be used or a suitable press cobbled together.

If you do have a lathe available, the detent groove can be deepened a bit as well. Before assembly, drill as small drain hole and also drill a small hole above for greasing with a grease needle to prevent future rust issues.

And lastly, if it still pops out of float, you might consider making an attach point (3 or 4" arm with hook on end. I welded mine, but it could also be bent to shape from a 3/16 to 1/4" diameter mild steel rod). This hook (lever arm) can then be hose clamped to forward side of loader lever so that lever arm is at 90 degrees to joystick and the hook is forward of joystick by 3 or 4 inches. A bungee is connected to the hook end of this lever arm, then down and forward to a suitable attach point (on my BX2350 it was the bottom of the gray plastic cover below joystick. The bungee should be adjusted to compensate for the weight of the joystick arm. This fix is 100% guaranteed to keep the joystick in float when you put it there. No more bounce out, yet still allow normal operation of the loader joystick. Bungee is adjusted to just take weight of joystick off valve and maybe a little more - but not enough to pull joystick forward to activate down spool.

bumper

 

[OldeEnglish]

It's not so bad on my neck but my back doesn't like me to twist very much. There is no way I could crank that thing by hand while looking back and operating everything at the same time. So hydraulic control was a must. My driveway is only 60' long, flat, 3 cars wide, and only one side to blow the snow to. I would love a front blower, but I didn't want to invest a lot of money in my setup to move snow. If I come across an old front blower to fit my old 7100 I may snag it.....

I almost went with needle valves or a diverter valve, but the cost of those new compared to the gear reducer was $30. Worked out well for mounting everything so it was a win win. Although, it did add a good amount of weight to the blower and I am definitely at the max of little tangerine's 3 pt lift power. Here she is before I painted the blower, built the rotator, and put some new 10 ply turfs w/loaded rears. She's in good shape for being over 40 years old!

 

[timbrehse]

Tim,

A loader valve that bounces out of float is a real pain, been there, fixed that.

If it's a BX series you have (and doubtless this applies to other tractors too), the bottom of the spool valve has the detent function within. They tend to get rusty. Before removing bottom cover nut from spool, mark the bottom most part with a felt tip so you can drill a small drain hole later. Remove the nut with detent function. If you have a lathe handy (doesn't everyone?) it's easy to disassemble and replace the 1/8" locking balls if the originals are damaged, by using the tailstock as a press. I imagine other tools, c-clamps or whatever, could be used or a suitable press cobbled together.

If you do have a lathe available, the detent groove can be deepened a bit as well. Before assembly, drill as small drain hole and also drill a small hole above for greasing with a grease needle to prevent future rust issues.

And lastly, if it still pops out of float, you might consider making an attach point (3 or 4" arm with hook on end. I welded mine, but it could also be bent to shape from a 3/16 to 1/4" diameter mild steel rod). This hook (lever arm) can then be hose clamped to forward side of loader lever so that lever arm is at 90 degrees to joystick and the hook is forward of joystick by 3 or 4 inches. A bungee is connected to the hook end of this lever arm, then down and forward to a suitable attach point (on my BX2350 it was the bottom of the gray plastic cover below joystick. The bungee should be adjusted to compensate for the weight of the joystick arm. This fix is 100% guaranteed to keep the joystick in float when you put it there. No more bounce out, yet still allow normal operation of the loader joystick. Bungee is adjusted to just take weight of joystick off valve and maybe a little more - but not enough to pull joystick forward to activate down spool.bumper

Thanks bumperm - While the blower is a BX(5450) the tractor's a GC2310TLB thus the thread heading 'Orange on Red'
Still-Thanks -I've cut and pasted your post for future ref. Great fixes all and I will want to address the issue at some point. I don't have a lathe but that's not a fix killer, more importantly, I don't have a heated garage. And with temps of 0-20deg - seriously colder w/ wind chill, I have more than a few small projects on a waiting list. It's tuff just getting a bit of Bar&Chain oil on the impeller drive chain. Next time I pass that motorcycle shop....
Your last bit really brought me back though. As a kid, my father had a buddy who raced 'Stock Cars' (jalopies) at the local speedway - figure 8 no less. All the cars had their column shifters converted to long stem floor shifters and they'd weld a hook to the dash to hold it 2nd gear.
I will find a way to rig up a rubber tarp strap. it should do the trick for the short term.
I think a bungie cord would work until it got wet & frozen.

 

[timbrehse]

It's not so bad on my neck but my back doesn't like me to twist very much. There is no way I could crank that thing by hand while looking back and operating everything at the same time. So hydraulic control was a must. My driveway is only 60' long, flat, 3 cars wide, and only one side to blow the snow to. I would love a front blower, but I didn't want to invest a lot of money in my setup to move snow. If I come across an old front blower to fit my old 7100 I may snag it.....

I almost went with needle valves or a diverter valve, but the cost of those new compared to the gear reducer was $30. Worked out well for mounting everything so it was a win win. Although, it did add a good amount of weight to the blower and I am definitely at the max of little tangerine's 3 pt lift power. Here she is before I painted the blower, built the rotator, and put some new 10 ply turfs w/loaded rears. She's in good shape for being over 40 years old!

That's a nice looking rig OldeEnglish. Obviously well cared for.
As far as diverter valves vs. reducer vs. $$ - whatever works. I researched quite a bit to see how others handled converting to hydraulic chute control (w/o dropping big retail $$'s on OEM) I found there are quite a few variations here on these boards that are doing the job. I'm now (oh brother) thinking of a 12v linear actuator for the chute deflector. As the season wears on and the snow piles up, I'm finding I have to get off and manually adjust it a bit too often.
But I do see how a 3pt blower for your application would be fine.
Here's a pic from the cab of my former snow rig. You can see why I wouldn't want to have to come down that hill backwards!

 

[irvingj]

So maybe these pics will give folks some ideas; mine has the factory-mounted electric chute controls. A bit slow, but adequate.

So far, quite dependable, though I do have to disassemble the linear actuator about every two years to clean out accumulated water (ice) and fill the gearbox up with grease-- LIGHT grease. This year I made a new gasket for the motor's lower cover; I was told by the mfr that replacement parts for that "obsolete" actuator are no longer available.

 

[OldeEnglish]

That's a nice looking rig OldeEnglish. Obviously well cared for.
As far as diverter valves vs. reducer vs. $$ - whatever works. I researched quite a bit to see how others handled converting to hydraulic chute control (w/o dropping big retail $$'s on OEM) I found there are quite a few variations here on these boards that are doing the job. I'm now (oh brother) thinking of a 12v linear actuator for the chute deflector. As the season wears on and the snow piles up, I'm finding I have to get off and manually adjust it a bit too often.
But I do see how a 3pt blower for your application would be fine.
Here's a pic from the cab of my former snow rig. You can see why I wouldn't want to have to come down that hill backwards!
View attachment 414003

Have you thought about getting a small hydraulic cylinder for the flapper? Splice in and mount another spool or a factory 3rd funcion kit. Summertime you could always use it for a hydraulic top link or what ever suits your needs. I almost did one on mine but I find backing off the throttle a touch and blowing at an angle doesnt require any flap adjustments.

 

[timbrehse]

Have you thought about getting a small hydraulic cylinder for the flapper? Splice in and mount another spool or a factory 3rd funcion kit. Summertime you could always use it for a hydraulic top link or what ever suits your needs. I almost did one on mine but I find backing off the throttle a touch and blowing at an angle doesnt require any flap adjustments.

3rd Function would be nice....but just for the flapper - I can p/u a sm 12v actuator & a 3 position toggle for pocket change.
I know I have wire, wire wrap, inline fuse & an appropriately sized weatherpack disconnector kit...... now that I mention it,
it should be a a fairly easy mod.
So ....pics to follow.

 

[Jaylegger]

It's common knowledge all these blowers are manufactured by Rad Technologies and except for the impeller gearing these blowers are essentially identical. Since Kobotas spec'd pto speed is 2500 rpm vs Masseys of 2000 rpm, different gearing is used by rad tech to achieve the proper impeller rpm for both manufacturers. The gear ratio used Massey blowers 2:1 reduction while Kubotas is approx 2.9:1 therefore taking an optimum impeller speed into account these units are not really interchangeable.

Optimum impeller speed for these blowers is between 900-1000 rpm and while going higher is ok, going lower than this can compromises efficiency. Taking your gc tractor as an example where the impeller speed for a "massey" blower would be exactly 1000 rpm, swapping out for the same Kubota blower drops your impeller rpm to 687. For the sprocket chain blowers this is an easy fix to increase impeller RPM by just replacing the sprockets, Rad uses sprockets H40B26 H40C13 for the Massey MF2360.

Cheers

While the subframes and mid PTO shafts may differ,
this is for anyone who has any remaining doubts about the interchangability of Red, Blue, Orange quick hitch implements -
View attachment 400223 View attachment 400224 View attachment 400225
Ready to GO (soon as it stops snowing)
View attachment 400226
All tucked away
View attachment 400227
Foul Weather Cab
View attachment 400228

From the Orange online build a tractor pricing, Kubota has discontinued the two current models of snow blowers (BX2750=MF2360) and the newest offering, which is to become available November 1st is the BX5450. priced at $1999.
The NEW BX5450 blower comes with a standard manual crank chute rotator, upgraded outer shoes on the edges of the blower along with heavier steel material for building the snowblower housing as well as the overall body of the snowblower is a bit beefier.
they also are offering a wider 55 inch blower the BX5455HD. this comes with standard hydraulic chute rotator and heavier gauge construction like the BX5450.

Blue's 50CS is the updated vs. as well (skid shoes on the outside)
I guess this means Massey has decided to wait 'till next yr to update?

 

[bumperm]

Hey Jaylegger,

Foul Weather Cab
Attachment 400228

Nice!

Do you have a heater and air conditioner for that foul weather cab? For back blowing snow, you're gonna need to add wipers :c)

 

[irvingj]

Jaylegger, thanks for that very detailed info-- now we know! I hadn't really thought about the rpm issue; great explanation.

 

[Stache]

Tim & everyone else,

This is exactly the thread I've been looking for, great idea followed up with excellent craftsmanship and plenty of detail on how to make it work!


Did everything hold together throughout the season? [ I'm still amazed by how much 'how-to' is packed into this one post that directly applies to my next 'want-to's'. ]

 

[irvingj]

Stache, are you referring to the UHMWPE lining, or the other blower mods? I had some smallish issues with my lining, in that a relatively flat rock got caught in the outlet and jammed the plastic some, flexing it and making a hump. I've since cut the PE back bit so that shouldn't happen again, hopefully.

 

[Stache]

Irving,

The lining thing is the MAIN thing that has me all excited, especially for the chute area. It seems like UHMWPE would make that SO much slicker that it would reduce clogs, or at least make clearing a jam so much easier.

I don't know if the impellers are worn enough on my 4' Pronovost that I would need to line the drum, or have room to do so, but I know my brother's 7' whateveritis has plenty of wear that he would have room to try it.

[ And THEN I need the bigger/better shoes, so adding or replacing with some thick UHMWPE shoes/sliders there seems like the next step. ]
-and then the whole rest of the post. turn the spout with a button instead of the crank/cable I have now. Yep. This is my "project" post for the next bit of forever.

 

[bumperm]

On my previous smaller tractor, a Kubota BX-2230, I used all electric to rotate chute and move deflector. A car electric window motor for the chute, coupled to the original manual "worm screw" with a short length of heater hose and a couple of hose clamps - the gear output of the window motor fit into the hose and the clamp held it on no problem. A 12 volt linear actuator from eBay did the deflector.

Then I goofed. Though I needed a single joystick to move both items. It worked, but added build complications and was not all that easy to operate with gloves on. Better would be two toggle switches, one mounted above the other and oriented so the top mounted one would move vertically for the deflector and the bottom one side to side for rotation. Switches DPDT center off momentary.

 

[irvingj]

Yes, that's what mine uses, a couple of waterproofed toggle switches (though the rubber's cracking on one of them).

They're mounted on either end of the "dashboard"/instrument panel. Took a bit of getting used to (and I re-wired one of them to reverse it), but it works well, and I got used to it quickly. Like I said, the electric actuators are a tad slow, but nothing that can't be tolerated.

As far as the lining goes, the distance it threw snow last winter was better than it was when it was new. Wet clogs are pretty much history, unless you try to throw a REALLY wet slush.

BTW, I took the leftover piece of UHMWPE and fashioned a fresh water tank shield on the new RV we bought, using the very same torch technique. Worked great. (Just didn't like that everything thrown off the front right wheel would hit the tank & drain fittings.)

 

[bumperm]

Irv,

Good application. As you know, UHMW is "bullet proof" - litterally. Depending on thickness of course, a one inch thick piece will stop a .45 slug - though I'll pass on the opportunity to be standing behind it.

I did end up buying a 48" X 96" - 1/8" sheet to get a long enough piece to line the impeller housing on my blower. Guy contacted me back and said shipping was going to be more than the cost of the sheet (sheet was just over $100) . . . they were planning to ship it flat!! I told them to roll it up tight. They did, and charged me $46 shipping.

Have a lot of other projects now, and winter is still way off, so I doubt I'll be getting it done soon.

bumper