organic farmers?

[Greyfields]

Some of the most profitable market gardeners out there are doing it in 1-2 acres. Size isn't the issue.

Weed control is tough. We use flame weeders along with a lot of manual cultivation. However, I've never worked on a farm or owned one which sprayed. So, I don't know how much more labor intensive it is. It just seems to me all the old school farmers say "If I I can't spray, !@#$% it". I found that an increidbly myopic attitude. I've turned over 4 acres in my field with a 43 HP tractor and am planting field crops.

And don't listen to people who say you can't use any fertilizers. There are all kinds of natural products you can use for soil ammendments. You need to stay on top of your soil testing so you can be selective with what you use. There are also several organic approved herbicides... and most importantly to me, there is an approved slug and snail bait. Honestly, our vegetables have never looked so good as they do now that we're using insecticidal soap and BT.

[edit] p.s. I believe there are several seed innocullants you can use now as well which are natural.

 

[Wesdor]

Brix - organic farming can be profitable if you are in the right area. Where are you located?

For a very excellent look at organic farming and other alternatives, you should check out Broken Limbs
http://www.brokenlimbs.org/

I haven't actually met Guy Evans, but have purchased fruit at the family stand in Chelan. The movie does a good job of laying out a case for organic farming. I do know Grant Gibbs who is featured in the film, and he has been certified organic for many years.

As others have said, you can be chemical free (that is exactly what it implies), or certified organic. You will need to find someone in your area that can guide you to the certification if that is your wish. If you have conventially farmed ground, it will take 3 years of non chemical use to be certified organic.

Once again, it all depends upon your market area, but if you are willing to work very hard and have a passion for this, you have a good chance of making a go of it. Be aware, such a plan will most likely take several years to become profitable. During that time you will get quite an education.

Good luck, this is an area close to my heart.

 

[D7E]

Some of the most profitable market gardeners out there are doing it in 1-2 acres. Size isn't the issue.

Weed control is tough. We use flame weeders along with a lot of manual cultivation. However, I've never worked on a farm or owned one which sprayed. So, I don't know how much more labor intensive it is. It just seems to me all the old school farmers say "If I I can't spray, !@#$% it". I found that an increidbly myopic attitude. I've turned over 4 acres in my field with a 43 HP tractor and am planting field crops.

And don't listen to people who say you can't use any fertilizers. There are all kinds of natural products you can use for soil ammendments. You need to stay on top of your soil testing so you can be selective with what you use. There are also several organic approved herbicides... and most importantly to me, there is an approved slug and snail bait. Honestly, our vegetables have never looked so good as they do now that we're using insecticidal soap and BT.

[edit] p.s. I believe there are several seed innocullants you can use now as well which are natural.

On a scale of this size yes it can work i mean it does'nt work on a 2000acre scale when your running $000'000's of mahinery to cover the acres any thing less than maximum results are not enough , Your organic vegetables might be nicer tasting and i would slightly agree but when it comes down to grain quality on cereals organic is ALWAYS poorer quality ,Low bushell weight,Low protein ,Damaged from lack of fungicides or even slight damage from bugs makes virtually unsaleable .
We tried buyers from all over the states and canada and there was a market but buyers were small scale , If the public were willing to pay for it it would be different ,"Try selling 65'000 bushells of organic oats in 8 weeks ".
All the organic producers around here will not admit it but over half of their grain just gets hauled to the elevator for a low price the"organic" is just an ideal of theirs
Now innoculants are amazing we use 3 types on beans with only potash fertilizer and results are amazing but legumes like beans or alfalfa are self nitrogen fixers so it's a different story .
As for natural fertilizers we ploughed 100's of tons of this crap into the farm like calcified seaweed and other hippy S@#t and it did nothing .
In row crops weed control is easily possible with cultivation but a cereal ?
Summer fallow kind of works but every time you till you just bring another batch of weeds to life (another reason for zero -till )
I'm not against organic but unless peoples buying habits change it will always be small scale .

 

[RalphVa]

I've always grown my veggies and fruits organically. However, I'm not trying to make a living at it.

When colorado potato beetle (CPB) started defoliating my potatoes these last 2 years, I came out with rotenone, an organically allowed insecticide. Va Tech and NC universities have sone some research on ways to draw desirable insects, some of which will eat the CPB. They do this by growing nectar plants (e.g. plants and bushes with flowers) near the veggie garden. I plan to start this by dividing my peonies this fall and putting some near the garden. Another good source of flowers and a good cover crop is buckwheat. I've planted some on rows already harvested and plan to plant some on corn and bean rows that I leave empty, planting 1/2 rows about 10 days apart. Can have buckwheat flowers by June 1.

In my mind some limited use of Roundup (glyphosate) ought to be allowed. Don't think full organic certification allows this. I use it around the edges of the garden (underneath the electric fence that keeps all varmits and hooved rats out; use of 410 to "harvest" hooved rats (7 last year), squirrels (2 this year), groundhogs (no problem) and rabbits (17 last year; 4 this) helps, too.) and on a few hard-to-full weeds while the garden plants are small. Use a 2 liter cola container cut in half with the fill spout over the spray head to limit spread of glyphosate.

I use very little fert: some fish emulsion sometimes and some worm castings. Think you can get good soil fertility by mulching, particularly in the fall and at other times as necessary just to cover the ground. I've raised rows done with a couple of opposed disc hillers and haven't tilled since. LOTS of worms, and I'm sure tons of beneficial nematodes. You disturb or kill a lot of these when tilling, particularly if you use a rototiller to "fluff" the soil.

Vegetable oil sprayed onto the corn silk keeps the Jap beetles off. It'll also keep the corn worms away. Bacillus Thurgensis also keeps the corn worms away; just spritz it onto the fairly big corn plants 2 or 3 times during the growing part before ears form. BT sprayed onto young squash also kills squash beetles during their caterpillar stage. Do it a couple times when they're only 2 to 4 inches tall. Then spray again around the base of the vine after it runs a bit with BT a couple times a week to kill the squash borer. Pull up squash vines and burn them to get rid of any borers that survive. Oh, there is a BT deviate that works on CPB. Haven't found or tried it yet.

I'm getting 2 bushels of squash/week or more this year. The asparagus beans are just starting good. Will probably be giving away about a bushel/week of them soon again like last year.

My garden is 20 rows, 50' long each. Nothing commercial size. Can do it myself.

 

[Greyfields]

You can use roundup for maintenance of roadways and fence lines as long as their are "adequate buffers" between those areas and where organic produciton is going on. Adequate buffers aren't defined but are judged on a case by case basis. I think they're a couple hundred feet. However, the first step to take for anyone going organic is to get your pastures certified. This is good way to tip-toe into certified organic. It allows you to cut organic hay and lease your pasture for organic animals to run on ($$$). However, it then means you have to manually maintain your fence lines. Nature's Avenger is one organically approved herbicide which you can use within the organic areas. One other thing, pressure treated posts will cause you lots of problems. You can't have them in your certified pasture. We used them on all our movable field shelters for skids. We'll have to take them off and replace with wood or recycled plastic once we have our inspection.

 

[Egon]

It was not that many years ago when all farming was organic.

Even I can remember the day.

 

[charlz]

'Heirloom' is a big deal these days as well.... growing non-hybrid vegetables, melons etc. There are lots of interesting heirlooms out there that most people have not seen as they do not hold up in commercial production environments (thin skins etc.)

 

[Kendrick]

Agreed with the heirloom. Also look in to benifical bugs. that is one of the more important things. ie ladybugs for aphids, wasps for worms.

Soil amendmens are a huge part. you have to be careful with their use and there are many ways they can be used. lots of properly cared for compost!

Mother earth news had articles recently you would be intrested in.

To the chicken lady poster.. Im intrested in info if she has a list of good sites or somthing i would appriciate a copy.

 

[Santana]

Organic grain is worth a little more but low yields, Low grain quality and limited market make it too unprofitable.

Yup it's true. Thats the key factor why farmers are not depending on organic farming. But if it could be possible somehow then it may bring them more profits.

 

[D7E]

Yup it's true. Thats the key factor why farmers are not depending on organic farming. But if it could be possible somehow then it may bring them more profits.

Absoluteley ...I'm not against it at all but until consumers change buying habits and are willing to pay for organic food it will not work , But even then it will be the stores or processors taking the profit , Farm prices don't increase when store prices do , And some-times the opposite happens?