organic farmers?

[N80]

Thanks for the info Spiveyman. It helps. But don't get me wrong. This wouldn't be a hobby for my B-I-L, it would be an income supplement. He already has 300 head from which he sells calves and a good sized haying operation (2000 bales a year...when the weather cooperates).

I don't think he would ever switch entirely over to a no-ASH farm unless he could find a huge market for it. I'm thinking maybe 50 claves a year to sell to individuals or groups. (He has done this many times before but just with 3-4 calves a year.) I think 30-50 of his typical 250 or so claves per season could pad his income a bit and hedge against what he describes as fixed (not tampered with, just inflexible and low) market prices that he currently gets for his calves.

Does the slaughter house market and sell your beef? In otherwords, are you just selling to the slaughter house?


Its just my opinion that he needs to think out of the box a little bit. He's losing his best help (his three daughters are getting older and his wife is about tapped out on farm work and is teaching school now.)

 

[Spiveyman]

All I know is what I've experienced, and what Bon Appetit had to say on the matter.

True true true. Personal experience is the key here. What you have experienced trumps most other people's experiences. I had a lady stop me the other day. Her dad was coming in to town and is a huge beef connoisseur. She wanted to get some New York Strips, but the store was out so she got Sirloins. When her dad saw them he turned his nose up and said that they were the leanest pieces of meat he'd ever seen. She was kind of freaking out at this point. I gave her precise instructions on how to season and how to cook. She did exactly what I told her to and served them to her father. She also realized that she didn't own steak knives, all she had were butter knives. She said her dad was blown away in every way. They were tender enough to cut with a butter knife - mind you this is not a filet, this is the sirloin, one of the typically tougher of the premium cuts. It was just juicy enough, but she said it didn't run all over your plate like juices from fat will do. And the taste was incredible. Now her dad's upset because we don't sell fresh where he lives. There ordering a 1/4 as soon as he can find a good deal on a freezer.

I'm telling you, grass fed does not have to mean less ANYTHING if you do it right. And granted that's a bit if.

 

[Spiveyman]

...don't get me wrong. This wouldn't be a hobby for my B-I-L, it would be an income supplement. He already has 300 head from which he sells calves and a good sized haying operation (2000 bales a year...when the weather cooperates).

Sorry man, brain skipped a beat there. I had the 4-acre thing stuck in my mind. It's late here (although you're on eastern time too.) where's the :YAWN: face? That's pretty decent sized operation, and yes, there's lots of money in it if you do it right. If he want's to switch to Lonhorns we'd love to set him up with a franchise!

I don't think he would ever switch entirely over to a no-ASH farm unless he could find a huge market for it. I'm thinking maybe 50 claves a year to sell to individuals or groups. (He has done this many times before but just with 3-4 calves a year.) I think 30-50 of his typical 250 or so claves per season could pad his income a bit and hedge against what he describes as fixed (not tampered with, just inflexible and low) market prices that he currently gets for his calves.

YES YES YES - that's the key. Someone makes money on cattle every year. Sometime the producers, not often though, sometimes the middle man, always the retailer. The key is to cover the whole gamut and you win. People still buy beef, even when cattle prices are low. If all you do is sell feeders, you loose your tail in years like this because everyone's dumping their cattle before winter because no one has feed or it's too expensive, including the buyers. So you get $0.40/lb instead of >$1.00. When you are selling the beef, you own the process as I have heard it said, "from conception to consumption."

Does the slaughter house market and sell your beef? In otherwords, are you just selling to the slaughter house?

Yes and No. Some slaughter houses have a beef counter, and they will always have a post-it note from a lady who called wanting ASH Free beef. They may put it in their counter, but that's been a tough sell for us. It's a rural community and we're selling it at a premium. They want cheap, not good beef. We aim toward a more health conscious crown that has money, that means a city with a good economy. We work direct with customers, direct with grocers, direct with restaurants, and through a distributor. We are setting up to sell on-line as well. Anywhere we can.

 

[Egon]

I definitely recall having only organic food to eat as I grew up. The grain that was fed to the animals was also organic.

 

[N80]

I definitely recall having only organic food to eat as I grew up. The grain that was fed to the animals was also organic.

I remember hearing the term 'organic' applied to food and farming the first time and thought what an utterly stupid term to use. What had I been eating all these years, in-organic, synthetic? It really is a silly term for this. I'd always understood it to mean relating to anything living, and in the broader sense, as in organic chemistry, anything made of carbon compounds. Which means that pertoleum is an organic compound (derived from living matter and made up of carbon).

So now 'organic' is one of those words that has been tortured into meanings it was never meant for. And in most cases such words are linked to idealogies like 'living wage', 'hero', 'terrorist', 'green', etc etc. When everyone who totes a gun is a terrorist, the word loses its power. When everyone who helps an old lady across the street or overcomes some minor disability is a hero....it means nothing to be a hero. Such definitions destroy the power of words. And I'm afraid 'organic' is now a victim too.

 

[N80]

If he want's to switch to Lonhorns we'd love to set him up with a franchise!

What are the advantages of longhorn over what he has? (What does he have? I forgot. I'll ask him this afternoon). I'm assuming longhorns are pretty small. Are they more manageable because of that? His cows are huge. How about temperament? Twenty five years ago when he inherited his herd, they were wild and hard to handle. Now they're still cows (stupid and unpredictable) but they'll come to a feed bucket and eat out of your hand. Below is my daughter feeding them cottonseed:

We work direct with customers, direct with grocers, direct with restaurants, and through a distributor. We are setting up to sell on-line as well. Anywhere we can.

This is were the problem would come. He is not a people person...at all. Great guy, great farmer, great dad, great tractor mechanic, but not a salesman or a networker. Someone else would have to do that, his wife maybe. Or maybe his oldest daughter when she gets back from ag school.

Here's his oldest rounding up a stray:

 

[dmccarty]

Dang George but I love that picture of the kid/horse chasing the cattle. The hat falling off really adds to the photo. You posted a similar one a while back. I hope the kids appreciate the pictures and what they say. If the don't know they will later...

A few years ago I read a book, the title of which I can't remember, thats main point was that it was eating food products that where not natural that caused health problems. By natural meaning a chicken should be eating bugs or whatever a chicken wants to eat but not grain. Grain is not what is naturally in a chickens diet. The same for cattle. Cattle eat grass not grain. I'm grossly simplying some of the book's arguments and it was not an Orgranic Will Save The World book at all. The author was a Dr. and was backing up her arguments with studies that made sense. At least to me.

Right after I read the book the local market had regular beef and grass fed beef. For a few months I would buy both kinds of the same cut and compare. There was a difference in taste. Not worse. No better. Just different.

Kept buying the "regular" meat since it was cheaper in spite of the book's argument.

We have a local food coop that sells organic and locallly grown products. There is a local ranch selling meat the is pretty good. They package the meat in thick vacuumed packages. The meat seems to keep longer than regular store bought meat.

Later,
Dan

 

[JC-jetro]

George,


Beautiful pictures indeed.... thanks for sharing them with us


I can see that the food in all aspects of it will be more and more industrialized to feed masses of people in the world. I rather have something to eat than go starved even the food is tainted by wholesale methods of production. I'm afraid more and more we will see that only "beautiful people of the means" are able to eat good and healthy and gladly will pay premium for it. The masses will keep getting sicker and plumper all the time although they end of living longer with the introduction of many many drugs to extend life expectancy with the diminishing quality of life. $5 buys you heck of a lot more calories in different forms from Walmart super store than just say 'whole foods grocery store".

JC

 

[Spiveyman]

What are the advantages of longhorn over what he has? (What does he have? I forgot. I'll ask him this afternoon). I'm assuming longhorns are pretty small. Are they more manageable because of that? His cows are huge. How about temperament? Twenty five years ago when he inherited his herd, they were wild and hard to handle. Now they're still cows (stupid and unpredictable) but they'll come to a feed bucket and eat out of your hand. Below is my daughter feeding them cottonseed...

Yes, awesome pictures, both of them. It's precious to see the little on next to those huge cows. So first of all, that shot is one you'll never see with longhorns because they have 3 foot skewers on each side of their head. They don't exactly pack very well, but that's OK for us. We don't feed them that way. Ours graze 99.99% of the time on grass in open pastureland, more like this:



I'm not sure what you call "pretty small." We slaughter from 20 to 30 months of age. We've slaughtered up to 1700 lbs. A 2 1/2 hear old 1700 lb Angus might be a wuss, but that's a pretty good chunk of meat as far as I'm concerned. My papaw and uncle both raise charlois, and I don't see a huge difference. Longhorns seem taller and longer, but maybe not as thick. They are a lean breed for sure. Here's some shots of a couple bulls and some cows, judge for yourself, the first is about 3 yrs, the second about 2 1/2 yrs, the cows about 5 yrs:




As for temperment, they are awesome. Longhorns, though they may look ominous are amazingly docile cattle. I think it's because they have nothing to prove. Seriously, they have not had to be overly aggressive for protection sake, though they can put a whoopin on a coyotte. These cattle are not stupid though (by cattle standards). Actually, they don't believe in global warming so they may stack up pretty well against some humans too, but that's another thread. Anyway, they are easily trainable and are very good to work with because they are smart.

...the problem would come. He is not a people person...at all. Great guy, great farmer, great dad, great tractor mechanic, but not a salesman or a networker. Someone else would have to do that, his wife maybe. Or maybe his oldest daughter when she gets back from ag school.

You have to sell to make money. No other way around that. I'm the nerd of the business, my partner is the salesman. Perfect match. There's a thought, get a partner that wants to sell, but not deal with the details. From the looks of it, his daughter can handle a horse and a stray calf, I bet she can handle a customer. Never hurts to put your best face forward. Literally. My partner doesn't let me talk to customers!! Ha! He's the "face" of the company.