PARTS AND SHOP MANUALS

[EFC]

I would rather own any other grey market than a Yanmar. I know that is a very unpopular idea and I will be crucified for it but I have a shop full of mechanics that agree with me. We have torn every model of grey available apart and by far Yanmar did not have the cat by the tail. If there is one brand that I know I will have problems with it will be a Yanmar. I have year’s worth of service records to prove that. I work on Yanmars 3 to 1 over any other brand including Chinese tractors. I haven’t found a part I couldn’t get for a Mitsu yet. The only tractors that I have problems getting OEM parts for are Stieger Model Shibauras (best tractor on the lot by far!). I don’t spend that much on OEM parts anyway the things that go bad are seals, bearings, water pumps, clutches and glow plugs. All of those I can get repaired locally and usually get a better than OEM replacement. We rebuilt two 4wd front ends today one for a Hino and one for a suzue got all the parts at Napa....hmmm. Needed a new seal for a three point piston on a SD1500 Shibaura, local hydraulic shop only had 20 in stock. Go ahead and attack now but if you haven’t wrenched on or used each brand then..... Buy the MT16D I have one and it is a Mitsu version of an F16D yanmar.

 

[trentay]

Thanks for the info and straight forward answer Buck! One question for you though, since you have probably seen these tractors side by side, how much physically bigger is the MT16D than the 1401D? Size is important to me and I would like to find the smallest size tractor with the most HP!

 

[mah]

I have heard that there are about 3 yanmars to 1 of the other greys. Is this true?

Mike

 

[roger_scotty]

EFC, I don't see why anyone would disagree with your service records. You see what you see, and I don't think its open to question. After all, in any group of information you are going to have some people at each end of the spectrum. Doesn't mean everyone has the same experience.

From what you are describing, I would call the work you are needing to do as more along the line of repair than rebuilds. Pretty typical of the parts that one expects to need replacement in any machine that is used long and hard. It could be nothing more than a relfection of Mr. Oriental Farmer keeping his Yanmar working in the fields for more years than he wants to keep other brands. Or it could be that in the particular area where your wholesaler is getting his used Yanmars the folks have different maintenance habits than somewhere that the farmers are using a different brand. You see that here in the states. Or it could be none of the above. Its hard to draw conclusions about used machinery without knowing all the history.

 

[EFC]

Agreed, they have good and bad farmers that is for sure. Each brand has one thing that they do better than anyone else. Yanmars weakness compared to other brands is axel seals and bearings and no glow plugs. Their strength is the option of a Shuttle Shift. Shibaura builds the best front axel. Very strong easy to maintain and depending on the model of Yanmar it has half the bearings and moving parts. Iseki has the nicest hydraulic system, easy to clean the suction screen and has a magnet inside to pick up debris, a lot of newer models have power steering like the FX Yanmar except much cheaper. Mitsubishi builds a Cadillac and we can’t find anything bad to say except the 4cyl models have a head cracking problem. Hinomotos seem to be the most rugged and the older models are huge for there hp. Suzue is just plain confusing but they do have a nice front axel but the reverse rotation PTO is a pain unless you just want to till. I have talked to a Japaneze farmer he said that he had no control over what tractor/brand he got or when he had to turn it in. He was instructed to change his crop and his tractor was replaced with a model that was more suitable for the crop. Don’t know how valid that is but seems right for socialized farming. I won’t say Yanmar doesn’t build a great tractor (better than the John Deere they built for us) but the idea that they are superior to all other brands is just plain crazy. We see more Yanmars because they are more prolific in Japan and Japan is the only country exporting their equipment in quantity. Go to different countries in Asia and Europe and you won’t see any Yanmars just fields of Shibaura’s/Mitsubishis and Kubota’s. As for whether to buy a 1401D or a MT16D they both weight about the same and power is less important than weight (unless you run large PTO implements) so I would go with the one that fits you the best. I would say that the 1401D would be smaller and should be cheaper also less complicated to work on than the MT16D.

 

[roger_scotty]

EFC, it sounds like you have seen quite a few tractors both here and there. Certainly more than I have. I can't find a problem with what you are saying about the Yanmars. The front axle is a good design as long as it is kept clean inside. Unfortunately, Yanmar didn't do a very good job of sealing it and they do tend to suffer worse than most when the axle is full of water and mud instead of clean oil. Like you, I think that this is because of their typical design practice of having multiple bearings and tight tolerances....a design that requires clean oil. I haven't seen it as a problem in the US Yanmars, probably because we don't use the tractors half submerged. Still, I cannot deny that if you are going to build a machine that you know will be spending most of its working life in the paddys then the designers really ought to either seal out the mud or come up with a front drive that is built to run in a mixture of muddy water and oil. I think you have a good point: The Yanmar "like a watch" front drive axle was probably a poor choice given the Asian farmer's operating conditions.
As I said, in US conditions it isn't a problem. If I was getting a gray I'd want to flush out the front axle and reseal it pronto.
Hey! Whatta ya mean "weakness....no glow plugs?" That's not a weakness; its a strength. I've got two diesels with glow plugs and two with thermostart and for cold weather there just isn't any contest. Give me Yanmar's thermostart anyday. The thermostart does need maintenance now and again, but that is lots better than buying new glow plugs. Plus for me it starts easier.

 

[JCooper]

Thermostart? This looks like a really cool word. Tell me more!!

Jimmy

 

[roger_scotty]

Thermostart is clever. It isn't really all that different from a glow plug, though it lives inside the intake manifold instead of the cylinder head. THermostart is composed of a little fuel reservoir about the size of a mustard jar which is connected to a solenoid actuated valve and a heating element - all about the size of a spark plug. You can't see it take place, but what happens is that you trigger the thermostart via the ignition switch and a solenoid lets a couple of drops of diesel fuel fall down on the hot element. When the fuel hits the element it makes volatile fumes and sometimes even starts to burn. Then you hit the starter and this mass of volatile fuel and hot air is sucked straight into the combustion chamber.

The physics of it all is about the same same as what happens in a diesel with a glow plug in the cylinder head. There are a couple of differences that appeal to my motorhead background.... One is that you have some control over the process. You can hear the fuel sizzle, so after awhile you get the feel for just how long to let it sizzle before hitting the starter. It varies with temperature and with every engine. Anyone who thought a car with a manual choke was a good deal will appreciate that feature. The other thing I like is that the thermostart is not inside the cylinder head so it lasts much longer than a glow plug. And they are rebuildable. On the minus side, they cost as much as a couple of glow plugs and you have that little fuel reservoir to maintain.
Maintenance and mild repairs don't bother me much. After all, compact tractors are my hobby. I really couldn't tell you if I get more fun from futzing with the tractor or using it for chores.

 

[JohnMiller3]

Another Thermostart uses a HD heating element located inside the air intake that preheats the air for help on cold starting a Direct Injection diesel… {usually below 0 degrees}

For more information on DI and IDI engines… check out this thread <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=oil&Number=64609&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post95259>Direct & Indirect Injection Diesels…</A>

 

[Tractors4u]

<font color=blue>"Hinomotos seem to be the most rugged"</font color=blue>

I love the Hinomotos, nice ride, power steering on some of the smaller ones, but I no longer think of them as rugged. I put a loader on an E2304 and ran it for about 6 months when the gears on the right side of the front axle gave out. I replaced them and thought maybe it was just a bad set of gears or the way I was using it. I always had a tiller or 5 foot heavy duty LS box on back as counter weight. I later sold another 2304 with a loader, 2 days later the gears broke and it was a different style front axle. About a year later the same tractor broke in half behind the bell housing. I later read a Massey Ferguson Technical Bulletin that stated that Massey 1030's with FEL's must use counter weight when using the loader. It seems that the TB when on further to state that breakage during use of the FEL without counter weight would void the warranty. They credited this to a weak front axle. Needless to say I no longer put loaders on Hinomotos.