Patenting an Idea?

[BHD]

I have made and used an Item in my fences for about 4 years now that has made working my cattle a much easier and simpler process, the idea is not new, and not (in my way of thinking even special), but it works very well and I do not see it being marketed by any of the manufacturer of fence panels or those who do the chutes,
one can find the idea on the net, via foreign countries, but no USA that I have found,

(I know pharmaceutical companies are patenting the body's cells), How I do not know,

and I have seen some that took two off the shelf products and put together and got the idea patented,

I would think this product would do many cattle produces (large and small) a big helping hand, it can be portable so it could be moved from place to place to help working the cattle in different pastures, and places, if wanted,

does any one know really how one would go about attempting to get this idea possibly patented and then selle off the idea to one of the larger manufactures of cattle equipment, either for a lump sum or for royalties from it's manufacture,

I have no desire to market it or to manufacture it myself, but would not mind making some money off of the idea and and seeing it help other cattle produces (large and small),
and want to protect myself in the process from intellectual theft,

since I don't see it offered by any manufacture out there in the USA there is a possible market and hope for being able to protect the idea in some way, (if I post a picture of it on the web, then any one could take it and possibly manufacture it and I would be out of the loop),

anyone have any idea what the cost would be to carry it out, or even the patent search to see if it do able?

thoughts,

 

[M5farms]

First thing to do is draw the design with as many details and descriptions as you can put in it. sign and date it put in an envelope and mail it to yourself , DO NOT OPEN it when it arrived this protects the date of design if someone steals it. This is also the process for songwriters . Once this is done you can submit for provisional patent this will cost you a little money . you have 1 year to take to patent at this point. Its hard for the small guy to get things done because the patent office requires research to insure the design is not on file and thats where the expensive patent lawyers come in. Once you have the provisional you could shop it to manufactures.

The information I just gave is what was told to me by an inventor how accurate and true this is i do not know. I have gone as far as getting registered with the patent office and have a couple of things in my safe that I have invented but have not done the provisional patent as of yet because of the time limit . Hope this helps

 

[SPYDERLK]

I think when it is/has been in the public domain it cant be patented. Perhaps could be developed under a trademark?

 

[/pine]

You can't patent an "idea" it has to be a complete design usually with a prototype...
As for mailing yourself a copy of a design...it won't do you any good in the US...
Poor man's copyright - Wikipedia

 

[shooterdon]

I have half a dozen patents that were processed by the company I worked for. It is an expensive process. At the very minimum, $5k. Most of that will be to do the preliminary work to determine if your idea is patentable. By the time you are done add another $5-15k depending on how much work is needed to get the patent. It is also a long process.

If you decide to do this...and that is not a smart move...you need to find a patent attorney that works on similar stuff.

My advice....

Draw up some plans. Have an attorney put together a non-disclosure agreement that protects your idea.

Select one or two firms you think would be interested in your concept and contact either the CEO, or Marketing Manager to see if they have any interest in meeting with you. DO NOT show them the idea until they sign the NDA. At times the Engineering and Product Development Managers have the NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome and are not going to be your allies...but they will do what they are told if the idea appeals to the guys you make market decisions.

Select the company you feel has the best opportunity for success and have them invest in getting the patent. They already have patent attorneys on retainer or staff. Negotiate a royalty agreement. Most companies will low ball you on a purchase of your idea as there is no market or sales history and they are taking all the risk. With a royalty, there is less risk for them and more upside for you if it succeeds plus an income stream. In your agreement give them a reasonable time to get the product to market (say 2-3 years...bearing in mind the patent could take 12-18 months) and retain the right to take the idea to another firm if they do not perform

BTW, I was CEO and came up through Engineering, and Plant Operations side of the business.

 

[M5farms]

You can't patent an "idea" it has to be a complete design usually with a prototype...
As for mailing yourself a copy of a design...it won't do you any good in the US...
Poor man's copyright - Wikipedia

good to Know. Like I said I was told by and inventor the process and did not know the validity of it. It will still be cool for my grandkids to find the design and tools I have built one day. I have a couple of things I have thought about submitting to farm show MAG.

 

[DerbyRunner]

Talk to a good patent attorney. You will probably have to exclude portions of your patent as non-exclusive. The parts that are exclusive, if desirable, are the money makers. I have been through the patent process and you need a good attorney.

 

[JasperFrank]

Find some one in China that will make it. Then establish a National Trademark. But don't bother with a Patent. Your Patent will be infringed if it is a successful product. And you will not have the money or lawyers to fight that off. You will go broke fighting stuff like this. You can forget the whole US Fed protection backing your idea from other infringers. They go hands off if there is a counter suit to your patent. Then tie it up for 10 years. If you look at the history of Patent, nearly every individual gets screwed badly. That's going to happen unless you are already a big company with lots of lawyers that you can write off as a tax expense. But you will have the Trademark as a marketing tool that yours is the "Real McCoy." That's the only thing you really have these days.

 

[Fallon]

Find some one in China that will make it. Then establish a National Trademark. But don't bother with a Patent. Your Patent will be infringed if it is a successful product. And you will not have the money or lawyers to fight that off. You will go broke fighting stuff like this. You can forget the whole US Fed protection backing your idea from other infringers. They go hands off if there is a counter suit to your patent. Then tie it up for 10 years. If you look at the history of Patent, nearly every individual gets screwed badly. That's going to happen unless you are already a big company with lots of lawyers that you can write off as a tax expense. But you will have the Trademark as a marketing tool that yours is the "Real McCoy." That's the only thing you really have these days.

The money for the patent process is peanuts compared to the money required to legally defend & enforce those patents. You are looking at tens of thousands to have lawyers research & send nastygrams, which likely wont do much. Then you are looking at hundreds of thousands to sue the infringers in court.

If you dont have hundreds of thousands avalible to take things all the way, there is little reason to invest in the patent in the first place.

 

[ericm979]

Yes you or your company may need to defend your patent or NDA in court. But that does not make the patent or NDA completely worthless.

A prototype is no longer needed to file a patent. Many of mine did not have prototypes, or did but no one at the patent office looked at them. For a patent the idea has to be novel. It can build on previous ideas but if the exact same idea is already published (or sold or otherwise public), then a good patent examiner won't issue the patent.

$5-15k is in the ballpark. Figure closer to 15k especially for your first one as you'll be taking more of the attorney's time. Sometimes the less expensive patent attorneys cost less because you do more of the work in researching prior art and writing the patent.

 

[BHD]

Thanks guys,

I was informed by a attorney to day that even if the idea (device), is used in other parts of the world, even if there is no patent on it, here or there, because it is a used device the chances of being able to have the concept (device) patented would be very unlikely.
and there is nothing special on it to protect, and in my mine making something or part special would most likely reduce it reliability or rugness.

about the only thing I see left is to manufacture them myself, or hire someone to make a few, , and then go and market them to resellers or direct to the cattle men my self, and at my point in life that is not a big desire,
and do that until some other large company catches on and builds them them self,

 

[dnw64]

I've had several ideas that I've thought to (and had friends/family encourage me to) seek a patent for. I've never even taken them to the level of posting for advice on a public forum, exactly because of the responses seen thus far (a result of my internet search for advice of same).

Sorry to hear your hopes dashed, but at the least, you didn't spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars first.

 

[dragoneggs]

shooterdon's advice is spot on.

I have been involved in a few patents (aircraft fasteners). Sounds like if the design is already out there on the net you are probably wasting your time. If there is something novel in the design or process, put some sketches put together, sign, date and have it notarized or at least signed by a witness.

I agree in approaching a company or two and get a NDA in place with the CEO or other company executive before sharing. If they see an ROI (return on investment) they likely would foot the bill for the patent attorney and development. If not, you aren't out $15K trying to patent it and once that's done.. then the tougher job of making it economically and marketing it.

Good luck!

 

[BHD]

I called my son, and talked to him some last night and he wants to open up a welding shop, here soon,

we brainstormed a bit, about welding a few up and what tools we would need to make to make them easily,
and just taking them to places where they sell gates and chutes and see if one could move a few,
I think the problem is in the US cattle producers just do not realize how easy this device would make there life, but once they would try it I think it would save them a lot of man hours, and make life easier,

but I think it may take some time to convince some, as we never used some thing like that in the past, so why make it easier now,

the big thing is without the marketing some larger more recognized company could come out with there own copy of the item an for the most part a small one or two man shop would be shut down as fast as one started, as they could provide a set to there dealers and there would be no way to grow past their influence and there net work of preexisting marking,

 

[Citydude]

I called my son, and talked to him some last night and he wants to open up a welding shop, here soon,

we brain stormed a bit, about welding a few up and just taking them to places where they sell gates and chutes and see if one could move a few,
I think the problem is in the US cattle producers just do not realize how easy this device would make there life, but once they would try it I think it would save them a lot of man hours, and make life easier, but I think it may take some time to convince some, as we never used some thing like that in the past, so why make it easier now,

The joint venture with your son sounds like a great idea. Build a couple, give them to friends to use that you trust with honest feedback. You need validation of your product that it meets the consumers needs.

 

[Big Barn]

I feel shooterdon gave excellent advice and hopefully you now realize the patent idea is a non starter.

My feeling is the best case scenario for you would be if you make a few (or more) of your devices with your son. make a few dollars (a lot farther ahead than losing your savings) and perhaps gain a little local fame.

No offence but you already mentioned “Farm Show” and I think this is the genre your invention will probably reside.

 

[Handloader109]

Just make them and sell them. Patent in 99 percent of the time is useless unless you are a large corp. Just make and sell.

 

[Valveman]

I learned the hard way that patents are not made to protect the inventor. Patents were designed to show everyone how to make and use a new beneficial device. For writing up and drawing exactly how to make and use the new device, the inventor is given 20 years of patent protection. However, if this is a new an novel device, it will take about 20 years to pioneer the idea and make it mainstream. Your patent will expire just about the same time as your idea becomes popular and takes off.

Plus if it is a marketable device, others will infringe on you from day one. You can't sue someone for a bazillion dollars for infringing on your patent. All you get in a patent infringement suit is damages. So if they only make and sell one or a few of these devices, all you get is the money from those few sales. And the fact that it takes about a half million dollars to start a patent infringement suit, there would have to be a LOT of damages just to cover the lawyers bill.

Also, as has been said, you can't even get a patent on something that has "prior art". If even one of these devices has been sold, or if it has been drawn up and described in any publication, that is prior art and a patent will be rejected.

If you do manage to get a patent and pioneer a new product on the market for 20 years, then you will have to price compete with everyone who is copying your idea.

Another thing I learned the hard way is, if you are pioneering a new idea, it is best to have many people making and selling the device. It takes a long time for a single player to pioneer a new idea. It is best if there are many people making many different brands of the device to make it mainstream. Once/if it becomes mainstream, your little piece of the big pie will actually be larger than if you were the only one marketing and selling the device and you had a small pie all to yourself.

A trademark can be better protection than a patent. You can protect a trademark for as long as you maintain the fees. If your trademark is successful like Cresent Wrench or Kodak, you will have the edge on everyone else in the industry.

Another thing I learned the hard way, is that any successful patent is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration. Unless the patent is just an improvement on something that is already widely used, you will have to work to make it known and be successful.

Build them and sell them. You will have the jump on everybody else. I also think a good web page and a few key words are more important than trade shows these days.

One last thing. If you make a product that is considered "disruptive" to the industry, they will do every thing they can to keep you down. I always thought if you made a better mouse trap people would beat a path to your door. But I found out if you make a mouse trap so good that it can make mice extinct, they will try to put you out of business as there is a lot of money in the mouse trap industry.