Penny wise, pound foolish

[LoneCowboy]

so, the last couple of years, we've mowed this pasture across the street from some of our friends. (in fact, they got us the job)

Now, this is an 8 acre property, it's a VERY OLD farmhouse and has tons of crap in the yard. they've been "cleaning it up" for years. (just get it done already). Anyway, it's lower than the irrigation ditch it's next to so the grass grows like crazy. already this year, it's 3 to 4' long and really thick like always.

We called her up (absentee owner) and said "do you want us to cut it?"
"yes, how much"
So, we told her and she said "oh, can you do better?"

So, we let it slide. 4 acres is wide open pasture, the other 4 acres is big trees, houses, etc, lots of stuff to go around, it's going to take some time to do and it's really tall. I don't think we much want to deal on this.
so, a week goes by, we go over to check on the other property next door and realize it already needs to be mowed again (we already did it once, fertilizer is amazing) and so call up the first owner and say "hey, we're going to be next door on this day, i'll do the wide open 4 acres for this price"

She decides that's good and says "go ahead"
So, in the meantime, i hear from my friend. They spent all day saturday on a riding lawnmower trying to clear out paths from house to outbuildings. At some point it broke and they trucked the riding lawnmower off in the guy's truck. Then they came back. All day, 10+ hours, 2 people and they basically made a couple path's between buildings.

I'm at the other place, i finish it, i drive the big tractor over to this place (no load and unload even) and hammer this thing out in about 1.5 hours. Stuff is over the hood of the TN and the guy is there moving trash into a dumpster.

I thought for sure he would go home and tell his wife/girlfriend "honey, why don't we just spend the money and get this done.
But, my friends tell me that the next day they were out there yet again on sunday plugging away all day with the riding lawn mower.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, ok.

 

[RoyJackson]

Yeah, they'll be tearing those mowers up soon enough...

 

[riptides]

Dang it LC, you seem to have run into a bunch of hardballs when it come to looking at a good thing.

May I suggest some kind and gentle words relating to time, effort, equipment costs in relation to your already being there for them?

I think business finds you, BUT, you need perhaps a third party on giving you an evaluation on how to close the deal.

Your almost there.

-Mike Z.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I've mowed a 5-acre lot for a friend of a friend for the last 5 years. I started doing it more as a favor than anything else. That was way before I started mowing for $$$.$$ on a regular basis. When I first did it, I charged just about enough to make it worth my while but not enough to really turn a profit. ($125) Like I said, just a favor.

Well, after 3 years, I decided I needed to charge a fair rate. Fair to ME. SO 2 years ago, I told the guy I needed $250. (It's 15 miles from the house.) He balks at my price, but after he got a few HIGHER prices, he called back and agreed. I mowed it 4 times last summer @ $250.

Last fall this guy decided to plant 110 trees scattered randomly across the lot. It takes longer to mow with everything to dodge now. That and I lost my parking spot across the road. (Deep ditch on the front of the lot I mow prevents me from getting truck and trailer off the road) Adding insult to injury, he decides to "save money" by mowing 2 times a year instead of 4. Weeds and bermuda grass now waist high. In the past we cut at 18".

And when he calls last week, I tell him no way I mow for $250 under present conditions. Price is now $400. He goes off, finally hanging up the phone. Good riddence.

OK, TODAY he calls again. He can't find anyone to mow it for $400 or less. (A competitor told me he priced it @ $575) He HAS to have it cut today. I'm nursing a broken finger and don't want to mess with it. Son-in-law can cut it first thing tomorrow. "That ain't soon enough" he tells me, "HAS to be today".

A buddy who works for city/county code enforcement calls today, knowing I normally cut the lot. He tells me that the land owner recieved notice 30 days prior to todays date to have it mowed or he'll be fined......$250....if not cut by start of business hour tomorrow.

Owner just called AGAIN, offering $500 if we cut it today.

My son is on his way over to help me get loaded up. I'm headed over to mow the lot. And NOT for $500. Sucker that I am, he gets it for $400.....THIS TIME.

Some people will cut off their arm in spite of their hand. Not sure why I'm being "the nice guy".

 

[schmism]

were do you guys find these idiots!

 

[riptides]

were do you guys find these i

Let us not forget, these people really want to give money to you. Just not at YOUR initial price. YOU have to find that hook.

-Mike Z.

 

[Kendall69]

Would it be helpful when quoting, to give the customer longer answers, IE,

$100.00, per acre, 18" vegetation or less, with no obstruction, no rocks, easy parking for unload etc.etc.

$150.00 per acre, with 25% obstruction, 18" - 24" vegetation etc.etc.etc.

$400.00 per acre, 24" - 36" with etc.etc etc.

25% surcharge for less that 24HR cutting or "emergency" cutting ( this can be eliminated as a negotiation point.

$ 000.00 - Clean up after cutting

$ 000.00 - Grapple service

The customer perhaps would know where they fall right up front, so that it might prevent them from expecting the same price at 18' as at 48", and it might get more cuts rather that fewer cuts. Where two cuts at $100.00/acer at 18" is a lot less than one cut at 36"

Manipulate numbers that work for you and your area, figuring in your costs, competition etc.

Anyway, just thinking out loud.

 

[Dougster]

were do you guys find these idiots!

I love these "LC" threads... especially when Junk throws in his amusing comments and war stories. They hit soooooooo close to home! The location and work is certainly different from mine... but the nature of the issues and problems are nearly the same!

Keep them coming Brain and Junk! Makes me feel that I am not so all alone out here!

Dougster

 

[Farmwithjunk]

were do you guys find these idiots!

They search me out. Being my good son, (read ONLY son) Jonathon volinteered to go cut the 5 acres while I sit here typing one-handed. (well, 1-1/2 handed) He has a tractor/mower already loaded and was headed close to there to unload for tomorrows workday anyway.

These people aren't quite the full-time idiots that they sometimes appear to be. They fancy themselves as shrewd businessmen, but aren't quite the negotiator they assume. In the end, they insult your inteligence rather than impress your business sense. People need to realize you catch more flies with sugar than you do with vinegar. My dad used to use the term "shmooze" for the way he "charmed" a customer or salesman. Anyone know what that means? Some of these people we deal with sure don't.

 

[LoneCowboy]

FarmwithJunk,
Wouldn't even be an issue
Charge him the $500
he's not a good customer, he's not a good repeat customer and it's his fault not yours.
Doing it on a moment's notice and real tall, yeah, $500, gauranteed

 

[Z-Michigan]

I see the idiot population is large yet somehow manages to afford a bit of acreage. ???

I wouldn't be cutting these people special deals, personally, especially when your standard rate is still competitive if not low. I don't sell mowing services but I know when I bought them in the past that I would expect to pay more for a one-time mow of an overgrown lawn than a routine mowing by the same company. Call me crazy. And that's without all the added dangers to your equipment of field mowing in 3-4' grass and weeds.

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. in the horse community I live in.. you see people trying to take care of 2-3-5 ac lawns with rider mowers.

The neighbor across from me uses a jd rider. Inthe last 10ys since I've been here.. he's on his 3rd one. Neighbor in front of me is on his 2nd.. but also bought a scut jd .. and now only mows with it.. started with a no-name.. changed to a huskie.. then eventually got the jd scut.

I just brushog mine ( course now the animals are keeping it down since Fl has been in a drought for 2 ys..

Soundguy

Yeah, they'll be tearing those mowers up soon enough...

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I see the idiot population is large yet somehow manages to afford a bit of acreage. ???

I wouldn't be cutting these people special deals, personally, especially when your standard rate is still competitive if not low. I don't sell mowing services but I know when I bought them in the past that I would expect to pay more for a one-time mow of an overgrown lawn than a routine mowing by the same company. Call me crazy. And that's without all the added dangers to your equipment of field mowing in 3-4' grass and weeds.

We've mowed this particular lot over 20 times now. No "unknowns" to speak of. I try to keep my word. I told him $400 and I meant $400. Don't think for a second I won't make a big deal of the fact that I billed $400 after being offered $500 to keep him from getting fined though. I'll bank that "favor" back until a later day. Through the years, I've dealt with "nuts" enough to let their raving and ranting go in one ear and out the other. I do what I say and don't impose "punitive damage charges". But NEXT TIME a price increase is needed, I factor in past history.

"Going rate" around these parts for mowing acreage is hourly based on anything under 10 acres. $1.25 to $1.50 per hp of tractor per hour as a rule of thumb. Over 10 acres and you'll run in to "per acre" charges of $20 to $28 for the guys who stay busy. Over 25 acres and it drops to $18 to $20 per acre. Most of those jobs are done with equipment capable of 5 to 7 acres per hour typically. Most mowing contractors here are adding a "trip charge" for jobs under $250. I simply bill time from home or previous job to completion of job.

From what I can tell, this is one of the cheapest parts of the country to have your field mowed.

 

[KrumpsBrother]

....realize it already needs to be mowed again (we already did it once, fertilizer is amazing).....

Why was it fertilized? Just makes you have to mow it more often.

KB

 

[Dougster]

"Going rate" around these parts for mowing acreage is hourly based on anything under 10 acres. $1.25 to $1.50 per hp of tractor per hour as a rule of thumb. Over 10 acres and you'll run in to "per acre" charges of $20 to $28 for the guys who stay busy. Over 25 acres and it drops to $18 to $20 per acre. Most of those jobs are done with equipment capable of 5 to 7 acres per hour typically. Most mowing contractors here are adding a "trip charge" for jobs under $250. I simply bill time from home or previous job to completion of job. From what I can tell, this is one of the cheapest parts of the country to have your field mowed.

Hi Junk - I find this pricing info very interesting... especially the concept of "tractor horsepower per hour" as a general pricing tool. Can you give me some idea of typical equipment used in each case... under 10 acres, over 10 acres and over 25 acres... both tractor and mowing equipment? And do you change your equipment for overgrown vs. typical mowing height... or first time at a new location (think: rocks, debris, rebar survey markers, etc.) vs. repeat customer and known property?

In my built-up suburban area, there are very few big open fields left. My potential jobs are way smaller than yours area-wise... but (in some cases) terribly nasty. Some of these areas have never been mowed... some are strewn with rocks and cut stone and debris of all sizes and shapes. How... if at all... would you approach such a job?

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

Why was it fertilized? Just makes you have to mow it more often.
KB

Glad I wasn't the only one who had that question!!!

Dougster

 

[LoneCowboy]

Why was it fertilized? Just makes you have to mow it more often.

KB

duh.

Seriously, looks tons better when fertilized, and way better for the grass long term.

 

[Dougster]

Seriously, looks tons better when fertilized, and way better for the grass long term.

And makes the Lone Cowboy *TONS* more money!!!

Sorry Brian... I just couldn't resist! Forgive me!

Dougster

 

[ducati996]

Owner just called AGAIN, offering $500 if we cut it today.
My son is on his way over to help me get loaded up. I'm headed over to mow the lot. And NOT for $500. Sucker that I am, he gets it for $400.....THIS TIME.

Im really confused - He realized he was getting a sweet deal for all those years, went to the open market and again found out he had it good with you.
He then requires a emergency cut on the same day - offers you more money
than the standard, and you accept less?

I notice you mentioned later that you are going to bank the favor on top of all the other favors (charging $125) for how many years or cuts? Do you think you would ever "even up the favors" with this guy? in order to either break even or be profitable? If the market is dictating more, and you are way below market to begin with - how much of a diservice are you doing to your business and family? The nice guy thing is you going over there that day because of his emergency is not yours! - that is above being nice. Giving away the store, is just that: giving away the store

Duc

 

[ducati996]

"Going rate" around these parts for mowing acreage is hourly based on anything under 10 acres. $1.25 to $1.50 per hp of tractor per hour as a rule of thumb. Over 10 acres and you'll run in to "per acre" charges of $20 to $28 for the guys who stay busy. Over 25 acres and it drops to $18 to $20 per acre. Most of those jobs are done with equipment capable of 5 to 7 acres per hour typically. Most mowing contractors here are adding a "trip charge" for jobs under $250. I simply bill time from home or previous job to completion of job.

From what I can tell, this is one of the cheapest parts of the country to have your field mowed.

Yeah that wouldnt fly around here - this horsepower pro-rated thing is silly to say the least. It should matter not if you use a dixie chopper or some type of batwing and tractor setup. Around here its about $100-$125 per cut for 1.5 to 2 acre lots. And its finished under 1 1/2 hours