People shoot people not guns?

[Bob_Skurka]

I do when possible.

Chris, that is my problem . . . "when possible."

I'm currently on a search for something smaller, lighter. I've got some 45ACP pistols, but even a modern "ultra-compact" 45 is pretty heavy, tipping the scales at 2 pounds loaded, and most are closer to 2.5# or even 3# and they are typically about 6.5" to 7.25" long. While a "compact" 45 is larger and heavier. I also have a handy little .380 but would simply prefer a more powerful round. . . not sure why! I think if anyone held gun on me so that I was staring down the wrong end of the barrel I would pee on myself and scream like a little girl, even if it was just a little 22LR. Still for self defense, I'd prefer something at least a 9mm.

Kahr PM9 looks very interesting to me, its about 1 pound unloaded, holds 7 rounds of 9mm, is 5.3" long x 4" tall; it is a very small gun that would fit into a front pocket in most clothes.

Taurus Millennium Pro PT111 tips the scale at just a hair over 1 pound 2 ounces, holds 12 rounds of 9mm, is 6" long x 5.125" tall.

Bigger and more traditional Colt 1911 pattern guns that are interesting, because they are compact include the DAO Para Ordnance LDA Carry 9 and the single action Kimber Ultra series pistols both tip the scales at about 25 ounces unloaded and ~2# loaded. Both are about 6.5" long by 4.7" tall.

Springfield Armory came out with their brand new Enhanced Micro Pistol, which is a shrunked down Colt 1911 pattern pistol in 9mm, but it actually weighs 1 ounce more than the Kimber weighs in 45ACP!?!

 

[Soundguy]

My when possible comment mainly centered around buildings that are prohibited to carry in.. etc. For no prohibited areas.. I always have a carry gun.. even if it is the little hold out .32acp kel tec. As you implied.. -any- gun in the right situation is better than no gun.


Soundguy

 

[texbaylea]

Eddie
You asked why you rarely read about instances where a legally carried gun stopped violence. The media deliberately won't report it. Dr. John Lott, Jr, who is a respected researcher and commentator on gun control has written about this.

Please go to this link Gun Control News » Dr. John Lott Jr. if you want factual articles about the gun laws and guns in general. He debunks a lot of what the anti gunners put out.

Vernon

 

[N80]

A legally carried gun does not have to be used or even carried in order to stop violence. The fact that a gun might be there certainly deters a lot of violence.

Can you imagine what the rate of home invasion would be if criminlas were absolutely sure that the homeowner wasn't going to blow them away.

Chris, I think your point about illegals and foreigners not having the right to keep and bear arms in this country is exactly right. I have nothing against anyone from another country. Nothing at all. But citizenship (in any country) has its privileges and its responsibilities. If you want the privileges that citizenship (in any country) confers, then you must fully accept the responsibilities. The only way to fully accept those responsibilities is to be a citizen. The rights conferred by our constitution are conferred to our citizens, not just to anyone who happens to be standing on our soil.

This is a pet peeve of mine and it has nothing to do with foreigners. It has to do with out government and a certain segment of our citizens forgetting that the privileges of citizenship are for the citizens. Otherwise, citizenship is not a privilege, it is a burden. Why subject myself to taxation, laws I don't agree with, signing up for selective service, etc, etc, when there is nothing to be gained from it.

And it cuts both ways, I would not expect to have the privileges of French citizenship just because I happened to be in Paris taking snapshots of the Eiffel tower!

 

[MossRoad]

What about aliens that have served in the U.S. military?

 

[texbaylea]

N80
That is exactly why Washington D.C. is so dangerous and has so much crime.

The NRA is fighting to forced the D.C. government to allow its citizens their second admendment rights.

I am also against giving D.C. a representative.

Vernon

 

[AlanB]

Should I take it personally?)) My country and your country does not allow for dual citizenship - and I will not give up my czech citizenship, there is only one home.

But I respect your opinion, of course.

Slightly to the side, but they are allowing some dual citizenships right now. My wife is filing now, and several freinds are in the middle or have recieved it. (German second) It may be being allowed though because of some security concerns, but I know in our instance, they are currently approving them with documentation and the proper reasons.

As to the discussion of Soundguy / N80, I sit on the other side of the fence. As long as they are LEGAL, immigrants, they are an immigrant, and while there are MANY things that they cannot (probably should not) be able to do, I hardly think that A CC permit is high up there on things to be denied. And by the way, LEGAL immigrants tend to pay as much or more taxes then many citizens.

And at least when I went through the ridiculous nutroll of bringing my legal immigrant wife into the country, we had to prove, certify, and sign our life away that we would not recieve money from the government, and to be honest had to get my Dad to write a letter saying he would support us and not allow us to become dependent upon the government, because I would be Unemployed stateside....... Heck of a way to treat an ETS'ing soldier if you ask me.

 

[czechsonofagun]

Slightly to the side, but they are allowing some dual citizenships right now. My wife is filing now, and several freinds are in the middle or have recieved it. (German second) It may be being allowed though because of some security concerns, but I know in our instance, they are currently approving them with documentation and the proper reasons.

As to the discussion of Soundguy / N80, I sit on the other side of the fence. As long as they are LEGAL, immigrants, they are an immigrant, and while there are MANY things that they cannot (probably should not) be able to do, I hardly think that A CC permit is high up there on things to be denied. And by the way, LEGAL immigrants tend to pay as much or more taxes then many citizens.

And at least when I went through the ridiculous nutroll of bringing my legal immigrant wife into the country, we had to prove, certify, and sign our life away that we would not recieve money from the government, and to be honest had to get my Dad to write a letter saying he would support us and not allow us to become dependent upon the government, because I would be Unemployed stateside....... Heck of a way to treat an ETS'ing soldier if you ask me.

Interesting, I will look into it, thank you. I just started second term - or as I say, for good behaviour I got me another ten years here

I remember we had to have some papers like that too - but it was only like 2 or 3 years for us.

My kids have both till they are 18 and they have to pick a side than, but you could be right, there are things happening with EU all the time.

 

[N80]

I'm not well versed in what constitutes a legal immigrant, resident or 'citizen'. If someone is legally in this country and fullfills all the same obligations as I do then in my mind they are entitled to the same benefits as I am. So don't get caught up in my imprecise terms. I think you see can what I am saying.

However, I think the right to keep and bear arms is among the main rights that should be most precious to us. I'd rank it above freedom of the press and free speech. So I disagree that it is somehow more easily transfered to 'others' than any of our other freedoms.

If the citizens are armed, freedom of the press, freedom of religion and freedom of speech can be obtained. A powerless citizenry cannot guarantee any of those freedoms for itself.

 

[RedRocker]

Soundguy,

I don't agree with the idea that if the campus had been a place where weapons were allowed and anyone who wanted could carry, would have made the place overall safer. My honest feeling is that there would have been numerous other situations when someone would get boiling mad, and what under typical circumstances would have gone no further than a verbal altercation, would result in the angry person loosing it, pulling out the weapon and firing.

Most CCW holders have to be 21, so younger students wouldn't be carrying anyway. As far as losing it, hundreds of thousands of people carry guns every day, myself included, and the pulling out the gun theory just doesn't happen. I avoid confrontation like the plague as do most folks that carry.