PEX preferences

[_RaT_]

I am in the process of doing some PEX plumbing. It will be my first attempt with PEX although I have done considerable copper water lines. Any plumbers out there that can lend some advice on which system is the way to go? I have seen the type with plastic fittings with a tool that expands the PEX long enough to slip the fitting in (Walboro?) and then the Sharkbite type or Zurn with the brass fittings and crimps. Any comments as to how to proceed would be most welcome. Thanks, Mark

 

[kenmac]

I have used the wirsbo plastic & brass fittings without any problems. There is / was a class action suit involving the zurn fittings. I don't know if zurn solved the problems or not. The zurn fittings in question were made in china

 

[lakngulf]

I have used the Sharkbite connections and valves. They worked great and I still don't know how they do it. You do have to get the pipe into the unit a good inch, and there is a tool to pop it off if you have to. Home Depot has all kinds of fittings. Amazing how you can connect different pipe medium.

I did not know anything about a lawsuit. Maybe I should check some of my plumbing.

 

[crusty 1]

I used the wirsbo on my house and no problems[well till I said this]:laughingave

 

[bdeboer]

I have used the zurn crimp type fittings because that is what is locally available. They work although you lose flow capacity and may want to increase some lines from 1/2" to 3/4" or 3/4" to 1" when you layout the plumbing.

I did read a good article about pex systems and flow that recommended a manifold system where each device gets a homerun back to a manifold. The article stated that it takes less time to get hot water through a 3/8 Line to shower or sink and therefore smaller sizes would save water and energy without sacrificing performance.

 

[lakngulf]

The article stated that it takes less time to get hot water through a 3/8 Line to shower or sink and therefore smaller sizes would save water and energy without sacrificing performance.

I have toured several homes under construction that use this "home run" approach, and I like it. I am in my last house and it is already built so I do not see myself using it, but the concept it good.

Also, I am in full agreement about the water moving thru the 3/8 faster. I have two water heaters and basically two showers that get used everyday. One is fed with 3/4 CPVC pipe, and the other with 1/2. They have about the same distance from water heater to shower and the 1/2 has hot water at least twice as fast.

That said, would it be a good idea for me to change the 3/4 to 1/2. I do have access to it and that could be done without a major problem.

 

[studor]

I redid the plumbing in my log cabin with PEX using the crimp fittings (do not know the make -- got them at HD locally) I used the "home run" manifolds as well. I would use it again in a heartbeat -- fast, easy, relatively cheap. Only one small leak at test (probably my fault)and a lot fewer joints. The pipe was easier to hide as well.
I have had the system in for about four years now and even had some partial freezing two winters ago without damage or leakage. --JMHO

 

[Toyboy]

My whole house & garage is plumbed with Wirsbo pex tubing including the in floor radiant heat. I think it's the only way to go if code allows it. It's very popular up here in the North country.

 

[_RaT_]

Do you guys insulate the hot water pipe? What about hangers/support?

 

[Kays Supply]

I am a plumber in Illinois. I researched PEX for over a year before I started using it. The Zurn issue was the yellow brass fittings and the wall thickness. The yellow brass dezincafied and then broke where it was thin. Wirsbro system uses the expander system. I use Nibco PEX and Veiga Red Brass fittings and SS crimp sleeves. Sleeves are longer and make a fitting that looks like a hydraulic fitting. There are several methods of making PEX. The Nibco system has the best memory, can stay in the sun longer, tends to stay straight when straightened, and you can get it in " ridgid" straight 20' lengths. In Illinois we have to up size when using insert fittings. That makes us use 1 1/4" for 1" copper. The down side is the tool to crimp it is $1600. As far as Sharkbite fittings, be very careful. I know a plumber that did a home in them and had so many leaks he didn't make a nickle on the job. They are great for repairs but they are iffy when the pipe gets in a bind. I tell my customers that copper and PEX have good and bad qualitys. It is pretty much even except the PEX is cheaper but the copper looks much better. As far as smaller lines, like I said in Illinois it isn't possible. I still use copper to run in the walls down through the floor then connect to PEX for the long runs. It is much nicer making connections to the faucets from copper. Also we have to put air chambers on the fixtures and PEX does't work well for that.

 

[_RaT_]

Good information. The price of the Nibco crimper will kill the deal for many of us interested in doing some rework of our plumbing and not using it as a full time profession. Wirsbo has some decent considerably cheaper expanders unless you go with the battery operated type. I also agree that getting PEX to look decent when installed is a trick and rarely ever better looking than copper. If the Nibco PEX is better, could one buy their tubing and use a different clamping system? I suspect ID and OD are identical. I am going to give the SharkBite crimpless a shot for an outdoor fountain. I have SharkBite tubing. SharkBite also has a crimp system with SS crimps and what appears to be quite thick brass fittings. PEX has been popular with new homes here in my area especially with folks on wells that have slightly to well above normal acidic water. Even type L cannot withstand acidic water for more than about 20 years before its gone. I understand PEX has been used in Europe for at least 10 years longer than here in the US. The pipe itself at this point seems pretty much impervious to everything but rodents and UV. Who knows though, PE had major issues after much was used in homes.

I am a plumber in Illinois. I researched PEX for over a year before I started using it. The Zurn issue was the yellow brass fittings and the wall thickness. The yellow brass dezincafied and then broke where it was thin. Wirsbro system uses the expander system. I use Nibco PEX and Veiga Red Brass fittings and SS crimp sleeves. Sleeves are longer and make a fitting that looks like a hydraulic fitting. There are several methods of making PEX. The Nibco system has the best memory, can stay in the sun longer, tends to stay straight when straightened, and you can get it in " ridgid" straight 20' lengths. In Illinois we have to up size when using insert fittings. That makes us use 1 1/4" for 1" copper. The down side is the tool to crimp it is $1600. As far as Sharkbite fittings, be very careful. I know a plumber that did a home in them and had so many leaks he didn't make a nickle on the job. They are great for repairs but they are iffy when the pipe gets in a bind. I tell my customers that copper and PEX have good and bad qualitys. It is pretty much even except the PEX is cheaper but the copper looks much better. As far as smaller lines, like I said in Illinois it isn't possible. I still use copper to run in the walls down through the floor then connect to PEX for the long runs. It is much nicer making connections to the faucets from copper. Also we have to put air chambers on the fixtures and PEX does't work well for that.

 

[Kays Supply]

As long as you use the 1" or smaller the hand crimpers will work with the Nibco system. If you have acidic water, they offer a plastic fitting that is supposed to be tough as nails. I haven't used them. The Nibco pipe can use other brand fittings. The fittings can be used with other rings also. I just prefer SS and the larger surface area of the crimp. The info I got about PEX, when I researched it, was that it had been in Europe for 40 years. They had done demo on older buildings and took samples of the first PEX . It was ran through the test lab and passed all the tests that new PEX can. 40 year old copper wouldn't even come close to doing that.

 

[studor]

I insulated the hot water and used bulk plastic clips for support that came with the system. I looked a lot at the sharkbite stuff and would use it for repair or maybe additions but I would not use it for an entire system.

 

[KB9UDE]

We are running 3/4 pex out to a new 64x40 pole building in progress. I have also used it in my house.

 

[_RaT_]

Do you have to run it in a chase or can you do direct burial? I would think using something like electrical conduit with the sweeps would work well. For 3/4" I'm thinking 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" conduit.

We are running 3/4 pex out to a new 64x40 pole building in progress. I have also used it in my house.

 

[bdw593]

Just built a house and used wirsbo throught.... It is a tough product... Actually had a line freeze during the building process and blew the pressure cap off of the shower faucet... When fixing it you could hear the ice in the line... No leaks once thawed... Plumber said he put the same wirsbo in a house and had all the lines freeze during an icestorm... He said they were frozen solid and buldging in spots. A kerosene heater was used to thaw the lines and there were no leaks... I've been impressed so far with the research I have done or else I would t have used it in my house.

 

[AKwelder]

I love pex. We use rehau here in addition to wirsbo. The ever-lock system uses a metal collar in place of the plastic one, just like hydraulic hoses, and it is strong!

At a sales seminar one guy asked how strong it was and got no answer, until an old coot in the back said he wrapped it around a bumper and pulled a dead F350 crew cab home with a blown tranny, tuff stuff

The shark bites are not legal for use in walls here, they must be accesable. And i have seen several failures. We use them for temp hook ups all the time

 

[SpringHollow]

I use shark bites a lot on boiler systems when it is useful to have a fitting that lets the pipe turn. I have had zero problems with them. Otherwise, i use crimp rings (the style without the ears).

Ken

 

[kenmac]

Do you have to run it in a chase or can you do direct burial? I would think using something like electrical conduit with the sweeps would work well. For 3/4" I'm thinking 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" conduit.

Don't know what your code requires. Around here you can direct bury. If you use this product. I would suggest install a tracer wire . You'll be able to locate the line if you need to in the future

 

[Kays Supply]

I have pulled a broken line under a footing through the backfill by a Viega coupling using the SS long sleeves. Not really broken, it was ran over by a skid loader and then he turned a 360 on top if it. I cut it out, but the line wasn't cut. I had one of the ss rings that use the ears break. I have not used any since.