Pile digging

[GarthH]

This spring I'm going to need to dig quite a few piles below the frost line (8 feet).

I have a phd that has available some extensions but wonder if my L3650 will be able to lift it up (reversing the direction) from depths around 10 feet. Any thoughts?

Is there something else that has maybe a hydraulic lift that would work better?

If the phd is not adequate I'm thinking I might be best to rent a backhoe?

Thank you again.

Garth

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Just my opinion, but I think that 7-8 foot would be all the deeper that I would care to dig with a post hole digger and that would be a lot of work. If you use a hoe you can loose ground stability for your posts. Might need to hire it out.

 

[Egon]

You could get in a pile boring truck. Much quicker and neater than a backhoe. You could even end bell the pile holes.

 

[PA hayseed]

I don't understand the term you are using, digging piles.

You mentioned a post hole digger going deep (8' I believe). I worked on a hydraulic drill rig, and we used to go several hundred feet into the ground. Now that is a dedicated drilling only platform, but the prinicples remain the same. If you run your augers up and down in the hole, there should be little to no upward resistance for the augers. I think that if you continuously clean out your hole, and run the augers up, the only thing you will be lifting is the weight of the auger and extension. Your tractor should be able to handle those.

You will need a plate on the ground (shaped like a horseshoe), and a wedge (to jam under the auger to keep it out of the hole), otherwise when you go to remove your auger and extension pole it will fall back down in the hole. I doubt your 3pt or FEL will give you the clearance to pull 8' of material out of the hole at once. I could be wrong about that, as I am unaware of all your tractors capabilities.

Having literally put hundreds of feet of auger in the ground at a time, I see no problem with going deep - so long as you eliminate the upward resistance and keep the hole straight. We have lost things in the ground by hitting limestone caverns, running sand, and shear breakforce - I doubt you'll come anywhere close to that.

Have fun.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I don't understand the term you are using, digging piles.

You mentioned a post hole digger going deep (8' I believe). I worked on a hydraulic drill rig, and we used to go several hundred feet into the ground. Now that is a dedicated drilling only platform, but the prinicples remain the same. If you run your augers up and down in the hole, there should be little to no upward resistance for the augers. I think that if you continuously clean out your hole, and run the augers up, the only thing you will be lifting is the weight of the auger and extension. Your tractor should be able to handle those.

You will need a plate on the ground (shaped like a horseshoe), and a wedge (to jam under the auger to keep it out of the hole), otherwise when you go to remove your auger and extension pole it will fall back down in the hole. I doubt your 3pt or FEL will give you the clearance to pull 8' of material out of the hole at once. I could be wrong about that, as I am unaware of all your tractors capabilities.

Having literally put hundreds of feet of auger in the ground at a time, I see no problem with going deep - so long as you eliminate the upward resistance and keep the hole straight. We have lost things in the ground by hitting limestone caverns, running sand, and shear breakforce - I doubt you'll come anywhere close to that.

Have fun.

Hayseed, as you said, you were working with a drill rig. Most phd that I know of are set up to dig between 36" & 48" deep. Yes you can get 14" extensions for about $100 each. If you are going to dig over 6' deep, then you need to start fabricating stuff to hold the auger extensions as you pull the dirt out with the auger each time. If his time is worth anything, he will be $$$ ahead to hire this job out to somebody that is setup for those depth of holes in my opinion.

 

[GarthH]

I did not realize the extensions were so expensive. To have something fabricated there will be a problem at the levels where the auger did not reach the surface. If the auger does not go to the surface then the auger filled with dirt which will weigh a lot.

I suspect I will need to find someone to come in to put the piles down. Most of them have just increased their price 5x's. We are really short of trades and the market is very hot - any price seems to be possible.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Garth

 

[gerard]

I'll second the "hiring it out." You need an auger truck that they use to set phone and power poles. It'll whack out an 8 foot hole in a few minutes. Right tool for the job.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I did not realize the extensions were so expensive. To have something fabricated there will be a problem at the levels where the auger did not reach the surface. If the auger does not go to the surface then the auger filled with dirt which will weigh a lot.

I suspect I will need to find someone to come in to put the piles down. Most of them have just increased their price 5x's. We are really short of trades and the market is very hot - any price seems to be possible.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Garth

Sorry for the negative type info that I gave, but I call them as I see them. Believe me, I'm one to do things myself, but if you don't own or have access to the right equipment, there are times when it just makes sense to hire it done by the guy that does it for a living. Yes the extensions are a rip off in my opinion. I have one so that I can go almost 5' down.

 

[SPYDERLK]

This spring I'm going to need to dig quite a few piles below the frost line (8 feet).
I have a phd that has available some extensions but wonder if my L3650 will be able to lift it up (reversing the direction) from depths around 10 feet. Any thoughts?
Is there something else that has maybe a hydraulic lift that would work better?
If the phd is not adequate I'm thinking I might be best to rent a backhoe?
Thank you again.
Garth

Are you going to put concrete down there as a footing or are you just sinking a post to 8'? If the latter how about augering to 4' and then driving the post another 4'. a used Shaver post driver for 8" dia posts can be had for $1K or less.
larry

 

[GarthH]

No offense taken by the advise - that is the reason I ask - I need advice.

I was planning on concrete piles but the thought of using wood is a good one. We have a local farm dealer that rents post pounders - I will check on their capabilities.

I was thinking about the issues while I was at work. One of our employees husband has a professional machine shop so maybe I could get him to make 48" extension with sometype of hooks on it. If I used an engine hoist or a winch with an overhead pully, I might be able to grab the hook. Maybe that way I could raise the auger.

Thank you again for the advise.

Garth

 

[EddieWalker]

Out of curiosity, what are you building that needs to have footings 8ft deep? If this is common for building in your area, then there should be allot of sources for this. If you are doing something unique ( more interesting ) then your situation makes more sense.

You might try to contact a trackho operator with a hydrualic auger. They can easily drill down 8 feet and you might get lucky finding somebody without any dirt to dig with it because it's winter time and he's just sitting idle. They had one on Mythbustrs that had a 4ft auger, maybe bigger, that did an awesome job on the show. ALlot of fun to watch!!!

Eddie

 

[SPYDERLK]

Out of curiosity, what are you building that needs to have footings 8ft deep?
Eddie

Eddie, his frostline is near 8'.
larry

 

[john_bud]

Eddie, his frostline is near 8'.
larry

Brrrrr!

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie, his frostline is near 8'.
larry

I was wondering about that, because that would mean that everybody is having to go down that far. I'd think that if it's normal building practice, then there should be plenty of people who can do this, since they do it every day. Maybe it's just the cost of getting them to do it, and he's looking for a method that's less expensive?

Eddie

 

[PA hayseed]

You could also go with a specialized PHD called a Beltec. I talked to the guy at the factory and he gave me a run down on the specs. I works like a drilling platform with rails. It is the king of PHD. here is the link BELLTEC Industries :: TM48 Post Hole Digger

I wanted one in the worst way, as I could prolly do small jobs for construction material testing co's on the side or for other jobs that I am familiar with from past work history. They are not cheap by any means, and you would need a decent sized tractor to run one, with high gate flows. I wound up going with an elcheapo woods heavy duty one for about 1/4 the price. I will beat it to death this summer.

Regarding extensions for PHD, as long as you are not exceeding the maximum lift capacity of your rig, and your have sufficient torque to drive the auger, in theory you should be able to go 8' with a commercial or industrial PHD. I don't think I would try it with a bottom tier PHD, as they aren't meant for serious work. The key really is raising and lowering the auger and cleaning them off. Even a drill platform can only DRIVE the drill soo much, it has to turn to work, and has to be cleared occasionally. You can also call alot of the factories and talk to reps who will tell you if their equipment will do the job. I am always surprised that they take as much time as they do discussing their products to harry the homeowner. Oh, and consider a unit with hyd down pressure.

 

[GarthH]

Yes most buildings have footings below the 8' level - that is why every home will have a full basement. I can't say if I've seen more than a few houses that have just a slab.

I haven't got a price yet on a rig but I'll bet its $1,000 to get it here and likely $300 - $500 per hour.

We do live in some cold. It's finally got over freezing today but yesterday morning it was -25 F. I can't remember any days above freezing since early November. We've been drive over an ice road on a large river since early December - I suspect the ice on the river is at least 4'; one fellow out ice fishing said that his 4' auger just got through the ice. We have learned to say Brrrrr with a few appropriate adjectives.

Garth

 

[bjcsc]

yesterday morning it was -25 F. I can't remember any days above freezing since early November.

Wow!! I can't remember any below freezing...you must really like where you live. I'd be spending that PHD money on a U-Haul. Life's too short to spend half of it frozen IMO...

 

[MikeD74T]

GarthH, A few years ago I poured a concrete slab for a garage that needed to be supported by pilings. I found the cheapest way was an artesian well driller. He placed eight 8" steel casings down 26' cheaper than a pile driver wanted just to set up on my site. Only took him 1/2 day. I fillled them with concrete as I poured the slab. MikeD74T