Planting Trees - Re-Foresting

[Henry]

I've got a need to "re-forest" part of my property. The prior owner got a little chain-saw happy and we're not too thrilled with the appearance of approx. 5 acres of our property. We're looking at planting approx. 60 trees (30 pines / 30 hardwoods). I'll be planting 2 to 3 year seedlings, which I figure that I'll purchase this September, plant in an old vegatable garden (good soil), then transplant next spring. Our property is in Central PA, in a mountainous area, so we've got that lovely hard-packed shale soil. Because of these poor sool conditions, I thought I ought to dig good sized holes for planting and fill-in around the seedlings with some good top soil. Now with 60 trees to plant, I've got a lot of holes to dig and a lot of soil to move ......

Question: Could I use a 3-pt. post hole digger (auger) to dig the holes ?

Question: Am I asking for trouble, planting seedlings, then re-transplanting ?

Question: Has any body else done something similar?


Treeless in Pennsylvania ......
Henry

 

[Caretaker]

Henry,

(1) A post-hole digger is pretty much designed for what you want to do, that is digging the holes to plant the trees. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif You can rent the implement or buy one - and given the number of trees you're planting, and the future uses for a post-hole digger, I suspect that you'll want to buy one...unless you can rent one REALLY cheap. The nice thing about having your own is that if you decide to knock off today and go trout fishing, you don't have to worry about an extra days rental charges.../w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

(2) I'm don't think I'd plant seedlings this fall then transplant them next spring. Trees typically do best if they're planted in their permanent site in the fall - gives them time to settle in and get some roots established before they start growing in the spring. Just don't fertilize them when you plant them in the fall - fertilize them the first spring. And any time you transplant, you run the risk of damaging the seedlings when you dig them up and you run the risk of transplant shock - which means probably losing some of the seedlings. IF the seedlings have been grown inside, they MIGHT need some "hardening off", ie. setting them outside in the sun for progressively longer periods. Another benefit to planting them in fall - the sun is lower in the sky and you probably won't have to do that. But, if that's what you need, then a post-hole digger won't work for digging up the seedlings - probably a manually operated shovel would be best for digging them up /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif - although I suppose one could (carefully !) use a backhoe for that.

Dave Wells

 

[rekees]

Henry

You could probably get some good advice from the PA dept. of natural resources. Here in Indiana the state has professional foresters who are eager to help landowners. Perhaps PA. even has a program(s) that will help with the cost?

Chuck in IN

 

[cowboydoc]

Henry,
I did everything just as you have said and it worked out just fine. I planted pines. I bought 3 year old ones, planted in black dirt for two years and then transplanted to holes dug with a post hole digger. I've only lost a couple over the last five years.

 

[Boondox]

Henry provided a great example of my primary concern in using a 3PT post hole digger in a previously forested area. The prior owner took out the trees, but not the roots. How do you avoid getting the auger bound up by one of those roots, and what do you do if despite your best efforts you snag one deep anyway? There's no "reverse" on the PTO, so is this a case of praying your 3PH lift capacity can yank it out of the ground?

Curious in Vermont. Pete

 

[cowboydoc]

Pete,
Good question. I have always used my Massey with the post hole digger and it goes through everything. It's also reversible. Usually if there is one that I can't go through it will just spin on the root though. May be interesting this summer with the 4600. I have alot of fence to build on my new property.

 

[Thomas]

Henry,
You may want to consider when planting your trees have the base of the tree inch or two below ground level,that way when it rains you'll be watering your trees in stead of the water running off.

If your dirt that poor you might want to what a little longer until the root system stronger before transplanting in the fall.

Try and not to over fertilize,also some feed store carry a fertilizer tablet and all you have to do just drop the tablet into the hole before planting the tree.

Don't make the same mistake as I did..space your trees when planting for the years to come.

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>How do you avoid getting the auger bound up by one of those roots, and what do you do if despite your best efforts you snag one deep anyway? </font color=blue>

My nearest neighbor loaned his post hole digger to a friend, who screwed it into the ground and couldn't pull it out with the 3-point hitch. So he decided to try driving forward and backward to loosen it up./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif That ain't the way you do it; they will bend./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[Blu21]

Henry, Something I would highly recommend when it comes to transplanting is a product called Wilt Pruf. you can find info on the web.You spray it on the tree and it forms a barrier preventing moisture loss. I have transplanted pines 5ft.+ in the summer with no dieback. Tom

 

[gordon]

I've planted a couple of trees in my time and a post hole digger should work well. It's always best to transplant just once if possible. Less shock on the trees. Also the best thing to do is consult a local forester. But if you want some info off the net here is a good page. It has calculators as well for planting. http://www.timberbuyer.net/ It also has a forum that you can ask the forester a question.
Gordon

 

[dmccarty]

Henry,

I'll repeat what others have said but also provide a bit more info. Call up your state forestry people. In NC the state has a sapling sale every year at this time. The price on the trees varied depending on species. I just looked in my briefcase and I don't have the actual price list for the trees. Hmmm, I just looked and I had a pdf file.

Many of the hardwoods, and there is a long list of them, are $20 for 100 trees. Many of the pines could be had for $20-40 per 1,000 trees.

The state starts sending the orders at this time of year. We made up an order but we had a list of 700 trees by the time we stopped. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I ended up procrastinating so we did not send the order in this year. I just have to many other things to do before I should plant the trees. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Since we will be doing alot of replanting as well as fence building in the next year or so, the auger has moved up in the list of tractor things to purchase....

Hope this helps....
Dan McCarty

 

[gerard]

<font color=blue>My nearest neighbor loaned his post hole digger to a friend, who screwed it into the ground and couldn't pull it out with the 3-point hitch. So he decided to try driving forward and backward to loosen it up. That ain't the way you do it; they will bend.</font color=blue>
Bird - that reminds me of my father who lent a neighbor a power drill once - guys returned it all heated up and said it didn't work real well - yup you guessed it, he had it in reverse!! As some one else on this board is fond of saying, "Too bad common sense isn't!"

 

[Henry]

Dan,

Thanks for the great idea! I'll talk to the local state forrester. I imagine that they have the same kind of tree purchase program in Pennsylvania.

Henry

 

[gordon]

Henry here are a couple of links you might be interested in.

Common trees of PA.
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/commontr/common.htm

PA state forestry home page
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/forestry.htm

Hope this helps
Gordon

 

[pdxman]

Henry, I can speak from recent experience on this subject but not for your part of the country. I live in the Pacific NW where fir and cedar tree's are prevalent and harvesting and re-planting is a way of life and business. My homesight property of 5 acres was logged years ago by a former owner. The property was never re-forested and became overgrown with non-favorable or eye appealing growth. In the three years I've lived here, I have done as much clearing as possible in order to bring in more light required for tree seedlings to survive. This involved not just cutting down growth but also doing some cleanup of the cuttings (slash) by stacking and burning. I never did finish the whole 5 acres, but got the worst parts cleared. Anyway. I had ordered 1000 tree seedlings from a local tree nursery...timber companies replanting ratio is 340 trees per acre at 10' spacing. The seedlings I got (150 red cedar, 850 firs) were called 1/1's which means they were grown from a seedling for one year, then transplanted to a nursery for another year. These trees were about 18" high and had a very nice root-wad on them. this weekend, my father in law an I managed to plant about 750 of them. Planting was not hard, although your soil conditions may dictate this differently. I simply followed my dad-in-law with a long spade after he spaced and dropped them to where they should go. I'd dig the spade in enough to be as deep as the roots are long, wiggle the spade to make a slot to fan in the roots and stomp the dirt back. Make sure the roots aren't "J" rooted (in a short hole and bent upwards). Anyway, my point is, the big commercial guys plant thousands of acres this same way without using post-hole diggers to get them in the ground. I don't think it would hurt either, but nature seems to find a way to accomodate even for rocky ground...maybe even to it's advantage in the long run. Just my 2 cents.

p.s. The 1000 trees cost me $270 which isn't a bad price in the NW.

Although my legs and back are now sore, I don't think I'll remeber that when I'm looking at my own little forest 20 years from now.

 

[GlueGuy]

Henry,

Out here in California our weather conditions require that we give the seedlings a good headstart for the long, dry summer. For that reason, it's best to plant in the fall so they get plenty of water over the winter (and it's a mild winter, so many things usually grow during the winter).

Also, to prevent transplant shock, it's better to plant initially in small pots, then transplant to the ground just once. Digging up a seedling, it's too easy to damage the roots. Not impossible, just more difficult. Also, you get a better success ratio if you transplant them whenthey are young, or not "too" large.


The GlueGuy

 

[Joeinindy]

12 years ago when we bought our place it was mostly old pastures with few trees. We bought black walnut and red and white pines along with a variety for upland game habitat. We planted 1500 black walnuts in two of the pastures and spaced them on 10 X 10 rows. The pines were put along the fench lines at 12 X 12 X 2 rows. In Indiana you can get them from the DNR for around 20 cents for hardwoods and 50 cents for three year old pines transplants. They are sold as bare root and are shipped in early spring. The way we put them in was the use a spade and run it down it's length and push it back and forth to open the ground, then put the tree in to its proper depth and heal the dirt back around it. out of the 1500 walnuts I doubt that we lost two percent, on the pines we lost around 5 percent. Some of our ground is very rocky and in these areas we had to dig a hole for planting, got more rock than dirt out of the hole. I wouldn't try to enrich the soil because the tree won't send it's roots out if the soil in the hole is better than the surrounding ground and they will get root bound or have a weak root ball. When you plant trim the root system of any overly long runners or tangles, on any spieces with a tap root such as walnut don't trim the long tap root just the side runners. The problem with a post hole digger is if the ground is heavy clay or too wet it slicks up the sides of the hole and you run a chance of the tree dying off from root strangle. The roots will tend to grow in the loose dirt you put back in the hole and not spread out soon enough as the tree grows resulting in a tangled root system that chokes the tree as it matures. If you ever get a chance to see how the pro's do it it's basicly the same as the spade method only they have an attachment on a tractor that slices the ground and plops a tree into the slice then firms the dirt back on it, they can put in alot of trees in short order. More important than how you plant the transplants is the care you give them untill they develop a canopy to shade out the undergrowth. On ours we used roundup sprayed two feet around the base of the hardwoods and the same on the pines although on the pines you must protect the tree so the spray doesn't hit the needles or you will get damage or death. I just got done pruning the walnuts (L3410's FEL works great for carrying the supplies, ha!) and most are in the 8 to 10" diameter range and the pines are about 8 foot. The mixed spieces in the front pasture faired well but wildlife brousing got a fair amount of them before they took hold. You might consider some type of hardwood that has potential for harvest down the road (way down the road!) you can have some tax savings for tree farming and it will be a good nest egg for you or your children. Good luck and if you have any questions I'd be glad to try and help, no expert, but learned alot the hard way.

 

[RobS]

Joe, sounds like a real success story! I'm just starting out but doing about the same. Last fall we planted 100 Norway Spruce using the spade method you mentioned. This spring we'll add another 100 Red Maples. You didn't mention watering during the first year or two. Did you have to do anything out of the ordinary to get the success rate you had? Also, I'm thinking of mulching with tree trimmer chips to help with the weeds. What do you think of this idea? What about deer? I've heard they like the maples, but so do I. Thanks for your help /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[deere4600]

Rob, the issue of watering trees comes up quite often. I planted 3500 conifer seedlings 18 years ago. I had around 90% survival the first year due to a good moisture year. The following year was dry and I lost around 20%. I am convinced that transplanted seedlings, transplants, anything bareroot is going to need help with moisture the first year or two. Even trees transplanted with a dirtball will need help although probably not as much. That is why I started planting the conifers a little deeper than recommended. All of the experts, (DNR foresters, nursery owners, etc) said that the trees should planted so that there is only a few inches of soil over the roots. They claim the surface should be flat when finished. I disagree. If you have two trees in your yard you can take you soaker hose and get adequate moisture to the roots. If you 500 young trees, especially bare root transplants) you won't have time to use a soaker. I use either a shovel for the small bareroot stock or one of my augers for the post hole digger on my tractor for the larger stock. In any case, I leave the tree deeper than the surrounding surface. It allows water to pool. This is where the experts claim I am wrong. Unless you live in a swamp (where conifers don't do very well) the soil will drain just fine. But you have an incredible advantage if you need to get some water to them. On a flat surface you could put 500 gallons of water on the tree and about two teaspoons make it to the roots. If the tree is planted in slight depression the water can pool around the tree and roots have a better chance of getting the water. I think if you get a quarter inch of rain it is the equivalent of a half inch where the watter can pool. I have a 300 gallon water barrel that I use to water trees. I helped my uncle plant over 300 black hills spruce using this technique. They are planted in heavy soil that includes some clay. The trees have thrived despite some dry years. I suspect I will get blasted on this one from the experts but I have seen several reforestation projects that failed, (less than 20 percent survival) because they couldn't survive the dry conditions. I can take my tractor and my water barrel and put a couple of gallons of water on each one (less than a minute a tree) two or three times during the dry conditions and especially before winter freezeup if we haven't had adequate rain, and be assured that the roots have enough mositure.

 

[Joeinindy]

Rob, I'm sure that some extra water will help, but in my case it just wasn't possible due to the quanity and distance. The second grove of walnuts were put in during a severe drought and although they had slower growth than the first stand they still did well. Wood chips make a great mulch and will help to maintain moisture but be sure to keep it about 3" away from the trunk of the tree, otherwise you can get damage from rodents or decay. If you are only planting for reforestation then I wouldn't worry too much about wildlife brousing, because most will only nip the top tender section and the tree will survive in most cases. If you are looking down the road for the timber then it becomes more of an issue because you want a straight trunk and the tree will branch out at the point where it was nibbled off. On the idea of planting the tree in a shallow depression, unless you are going to water them as another poster did, I wouldn't do it. Most all transplants will have a knuckle developed where the trunk met the ground and if that is planted below the ground surface the chances of loss go way up. As time passes the ground will fill in that depression through winter heaving and the tree will be below where it should be. Remember the trees you plant are native to the area and are very hardy and will tolerate most adverse conditions, soil, water, light will all affect growth but rairly will it prevent survival. In the first grove of walnuts the land slops downhill and the top of the hill is VERY rocky, the trees on in the rocky ground are about 1/4 the size of the rest, but none died off. A good testament to the hardiness of them.