Plastic vs Steel

[markie61]

I feel pretty strongly, too. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The plastics where the color "cracks" MAY be painted. The NH is molded color all the way through - never needs paint.

On mine, the low profile for aerodynamics is a joke (I joke it has a .32 drag coeffecient - about the same a Porsche.) However, low profile = excellent visability. I guess it is easier to mold a tight, low profile design than stamp it.

Steel is inexpensive nowadays, especially off-shore steel (which is where our CUTs are from). Good quality plastics can be expensive. I wonder if a dealer who sells NH fenders and Kubota fenders could make a price comparison.....'twould be instructive. Maybe it is for money....maybe it is because it is the best material for the design/application. Dunno.....

Anywho, I'll be online at this website on May 29, 2023. Let's compare notes /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Mark

PS I was born in Butler, PA! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

My tractor has been pretty indestructable with regards to the plastic but on the Gator we've gone through four fenders now. I'm not too pleased with the fenders there.

 

[TresCrows]

I agree with you. The plastic is strictly a cost cutting measure. It is dollar driven. Steel is repairable, refinishable and the plastic is throwaway. Fiberglass, like steel, is repairable and refinishable so it has it's niche. Some of the new plastics are quite amazing but I would rather have steel. J

 

[Bird]

I think one (problem? or just factor?) is that there are so many different kinds of "plastic." And if other consumers are like me, you don't really know what you're getting or how it will hold up to different environments. I really had doubts about the first plastics on the dash of automobiles, and thought for sure someone was kidding the first time I heard that Plymouths used plastic pistons in front brake calipers. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif So I just muddle along in my ignorance and take what I get. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif And most of the "plastics" have held up pretty well for me.

 

[Heath]

I'm with Bird. I'm not educated enough in the different chemistries of plastics, but I'm 100% sure that all plastic is not created equal. I also have NO way of knowing if the plastic components on the newer tractors cost less than using metal. I think that there are likely a lot of reasons why plastic might be used, many of them likely related to the ease of handling the raw material and the components during assembly.
My real opinion is that any manufacturer like Deere or Kubota would not use a material in their products that they felt it wouldn't give the consumer the most bang for their buck.
There have been so many advances in the areas of composites and plastics in the last 10-20 years, that I don't think anybody knows if plastic is better or worse than metal. I think that basing an opinion of plastics based on the performace of a plastic product that was manufatured 20, 10, or 5 years ago is a flawed approach.

 

[looch]

<font color="blue">My real opinion is that any manufacturer like Deere or Kubota would not use a material in their products that they felt would give the consumer the most bang for their buck</font>

My interpretation:

If Deere or Kubota think it's good - they won't use it.

Is this what you meant or is their a second negative missing?

 

[PhilNH5]

Heath,
I agree on the retro spective approach on plastics history. I worked for a while at a company that made conductie coatings for EMF shielding. They were used to coat the insides of computers. We had to conduct environmental tests on the coating when apllied to various types of plastic test sheets. This was done in an enivonmental chamber were we could control humidity, temperature and light exposure (lux). We followed ASTM guidelines and cycled through dif temps etc.

What always struck me was how well our coatings held up and how poorly the plastic held up after exposure to a years worth of sunlight. Trying to prove our coating was still intact while the test substrate crumbled was always fun.

But I know that huge advances have taken place in the ensuing 20 years so none of that info is relevant anymore. It will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out.

 

[CSAW]

Here in the humidity capital of the world (Florida) metal was the biggest reason I didn't consider a kubota when looking at the big 3. Plastic is a broad term. I posted a year or more ago about my jd stx38 and how the plastic hood disintegrated. Around $200.00 then, I see someone else had the same problem and now they are $230.00 That is why it is hoodless now and will stay that way. It was a brittle hard plastic, nothing like what is used on my tc35 and I'm sure it is not the same thing Deere uses on its tractors.

I have had small branches fall on my tractor hood and bounce off with no blemishes. I once had a large vine get wrapped up in my rear wheel and push the fender way up. I got the vine out and the fender went right back to its original place with no marks or problems. I know that if it had been metal it would have stayed sticking up in the air and probably kinked when I pushed it back down.

I'm not so sure plastic is cheaper than a stamped piece of sheet metal. I would think that it is probably more. I think that that plastic is more versitile than steel and the manufacturers use it because it is easier to get complex shapes out of.

For me plastic is the only choice. Good plastic that is. JMHO

 

[MikePA]

Perhaps this is just semantics, but are we discussing plastic or fiberglass? I believe the 'plastic' on my TC25D is actually fiberglass...at least based on how the underside of the hood and fenders appear.

 

[CSAW]

Mike My tc 35 does not appear to be fiberglass. However I don't know what it is. It looks like the same material that my 1996 Polaris watercrafts were made out of. Wish I could remember what that was, I don't have them any longer. Fiberglass would be ok though, I have a 34 year old dune buggy and the fenders have not fallen off of it yet, although the floor is rusty. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[looch]

The true benefits of each will only be visible in about 20 years from now. The rust argument doesn't hold water /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif , seeing as how the rest of the machine is made of steel. And, Florida may be humid, but it snows up here.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Perhaps this is just semantics, but are we discussing plastic or fiberglass? )</font>

Plastic--excluding fiberglass--was my impression. Fiberglass is a form of fiber reinforced plastic (generally using polyester or vinylester resins). Except for color, it holds up very well in the sun. Witness all those "clorox bottles" bobbing at anchor in Fla.

It is also pretty expensive stuff, since it generally is labor intensive.

I would have no problem with tractor parts being made of fiberglass, since it is something I can repair and refinish myself. Plus it's tuff stuff too, when made right.

SnowRidge

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bird,
I had a Plymouth with plastic pistons in the front calipers. Both swelled and locked up at about 75,000 miles. I replaced them with steel pistons and had no more problems. Dumped the car at 225,000 miles. Plastic is temporary....
Tractors should last.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Like Bird said, there's plastic and then there's plastic. How many of the folks who don't like plastic drive Saturns? Or any of the crop of new SUV's with plastic panels? Chevy Avalanche? None of these degrade in Florida sun as far as I can see. The plastic that degrades in Florida tends to be of the milk bottle variety.

Some of the NH TC models have plastic. I was disappointed that my TC18 is mostly steel. I scratched the hood the first time I tried to lift something with a chain on the FEL and it swung into the hood, and it rusted until the dealer was kind enough to spot it in (free) at the 50 hour service. Then, I carelessly ground some welds near it, forgetting it was steel, and there are some pits coming up. I'm going to have to sand and completely repaint the hood soon, and it's only 2 months old.

I've lived in Florida for the past 31 years, and by far prefer plastic. Plastic drums and garbage cans hold up; metal ones fall apart. Plastic Rubbermade sheds hold up; metal ones rust apart. There are hundreds of examples. Plastic depends on the composition; metal depends on paint.

All that said, if someone came out with an aluminum-bodied tractor, I'd be first in line.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The true benefits of each will only be visible in about 20 years from now. The rust argument doesn't hold water /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif , seeing as how the rest of the machine is made of steel. And, Florida may be humid, but it snows up here. )</font>

I agree that only time will tell. However, there is a vast difference between the heavy steel of frames, etc. and light guage sheet metal. As far as comparing Florida humidity with snow, the comparison is valid when you throw ice-fighting salt into the mixture. But, no one who has not lived in tropical South Florida can truly understand the corrosive nature of heat and humidity and salt-laden air.

You can always tell an older Florida car - it rusts from the top down instead of from the bottom up like Northern cars.

 

[CSAW]

Don you beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing about sheet metal vs cast parts. I live about 1 1/2 miles from the ocean and about a mile from salt water river. Unless you keep a car or tractor inside a garage it will get wet almost every night even if under a carport. I drive an old pickup that I leave outside, it has vents on the dash that blow forced air only when moving. If I don't close those vents at night my truck will get wet on the insde over night.

The people who live in the condos on the beach here have to replace their air conditioners every 1 to 2 years because the rust and corrode to pieces. My house has aluminum eaves about 18 years old and they are corroded and will replaced soon along with the roof. I agree you have to live here to understand.

<font color="blue"> </font> You can always tell an older Florida car - it rusts from the top down instead of from the bottom up like Northern cars.

<font color="black"> </font> This is so true you can tell a northern car from a Florida car from a distance.

 

[r0GuE]

I may waver to ones argument that plastic will "hold up" (a generic term since it may perform better in one respect and worse in another... very subjective). However; there is absolutely no way that those plastic parts cost more than metal. Plastic has a lot of good properties to be sure. I personally don't believe that plastic lends itself to outdoor use or heavy equipment applications but I see that this point can be argued. But I can guarantee that a given plastic part is cheaper than its metal counterpart several fold. From the original raw material, to the stamping / molding process, to the fact that it does not need to be painted, to the ease of handling so that it is not scratched at the factory, to the lighter weight in handling and shipping. I absolutely reject the notion that the manufacturers have selected parts to be replaced with plastic because they are looking for more performance out of those parts. Why is it the higher up the models lines you go, the less plastic you see. That fact says it all to me.
I like plastic to a degree on cars,... being from Western PA. ... The salt capital of the world, it is nice to not have every part of your car blistering from rust after one year. But cars (in my opinion), are 10 year machines at best. Tractors are 20 - 60 year machines.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Rogue,
I agree with you tractors should be 20-60 year machines. However I think the tractor manufacturers are making them more like a 10 year machine so they can sell more thus more profits. And guess who pays for those increased profits ? US!

 

[TresCrows]

I see no reason new compacts should not last many years. They will, however, be minus all that plastic but we can cobble up some plywood hoods and 2X4 fenders and maybe a nice redwood floor. J

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Good point on the wood fixup /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif It might not so well in an antique tractor show though, but well on the Beverly Hillbillys /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
However the electronics might be another long term issue, and have to push it to the show /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The simpler they are the easier they are to keep running.