Play in all joints

[catsco]

I've put nearly 800 hours on my PT-425 and am starting to get concerned about the amount of play in the four joints of the lifts arms.

I lubed them every eight hours, but even when I first got the PT it seemed that the balls of the lift arms turned on the bolts (got lube into that area all the time also, just in case).

The bolts are not loose, but no matter how tight they are, the ball doesn't turn in the lift arm, just on the bolt.

So - I'll probably replace the bolts at some point, but wonder if there's a way to replace the balls.

The good news is that the looseness of those joints and the quick attach plate play from wear over the years, when I plow the blade has enough play that either end can go up or down an inch or so.

Same thing is bad news when I'm trying to use finesse grading!

Thanks!

 

[Gravy]

I used washers as shims to take the side play out of those joints. I'm not sure it made a real difference, but it made me feel better.

 

[MossRoad]

The balls in my FEL arms do not move, either. It only rotates the tube on the bolt as well. No play in mine, yet, but only 400 hours.

 

[J_J]

The swivel eye joints are designed to swivel, not rotate. If anything should wear out, it should be the center, as it rotates.

To upgrade this a little. Although the swivel eye probably does not wear out, if it did, then you could cut it out and weld in a new one. However, if the mating surface for the swivel eye is worn, you would have to cut off the end piece and weld a new swivel unit back on. As in 13279 below.

http://www.sparexusa.com/Catalogs/Compact/3point.pdf

Union Farm Equipment Shop - Lower Lift Arms

 

[coolconnection]

I like this thread, on my PT where the lift arms connect to the tractor is the swivel suppose to be tight on the sides where the bolt slides through so it pivots on the bolt or is it suppose to pivot on the swivel? Mine were loose before I replaced to the new lift arms so on the new one I tightened them so the 2 side clamps were just tight enough to keep the swivel sleve from spinning in there. Is this right or wrong? Should I loosen it? Thanks

 

[J_J]

I like this thread, on my PT where the lift arms connect to the tractor is the swivel suppose to be tight on the sides where the bolt slides through so it pivots on the bolt or is it suppose to pivot on the swivel? Mine were loose before I replaced to the new lift arms so on the new one I tightened them so the 2 side clamps were just tight enough to keep the swivel sleve from spinning in there. Is this right or wrong? Should I loosen it? Thanks

As I said before, the ball should not rotate, but have a side to side movement.

I would loosen the sides to allow up and down movement, or you will be wearing both the center, and the ball, wearing out the race part of the assembly.

 

[ponytug]

In an ideal world, the rotation of the lift arm on the joints would be perfectly aligned, and you wouldn't need to have a swivel.

If you expect misalignments, either because of inaccuracies in assembly, or because the user of the equipment can be expected to bend the lift arms, then adding swivels will keep the equipment fully functional.

But, yes, the equipment should rotate on the bolt/swivel interface, not the swivel/arm interface.

If the arm is moving laterally on the bolt, then washers would help confine the movement to a single bearing surface and minimize the amount of dirt on the load bearing surface.

I think that this has been covered in a prior thread...

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

Of course, it is next to impossible to get grease into the area between the bolt and sleeve. I have wondered (and even discussed this several years ago) would it be beneficial to drill a 1/8" hole down the center of the bolt to a point equal to the center of the sleeve, then drill a hole from the side of the bolt to meet that center passage. Then tap the center passage in the bolt for a grease zerk so you can get grease to the center of the sleeve.

Any thoughts?

Would a small channel around the bolt where the center channel exits be beneficial to get the grease around the bolt?

 

[SPYDERLK]

Of course, it is next to impossible to get grease into the area between the bolt and sleeve. I have wondered (and even discussed this several years ago) would it be beneficial to drill a 1/8" hole down the center of the bolt to a point equal to the center of the sleeve, then drill a hole from the side of the bolt to meet that center passage.

I think that is a good idea assuming the bolts are a good size to sustain the weakening from the cross hole.
larry

 

[toy]

Of course, it is next to impossible to get grease into the area between the bolt and sleeve. I have wondered (and even discussed this several years ago) would it be beneficial to drill a 1/8" hole down the center of the bolt to a point equal to the center of the sleeve, then drill a hole from the side of the bolt to meet that center passage. Then tap the center passage in the bolt for a grease zerk so you can get grease to the center of the sleeve.

Any thoughts?

Would a small channel around the bolt where the center channel exits be beneficial to get the grease around the bolt?

I remember those discussions and I thought at the time, and still do that that would be a good idea. I have also thought how could you protect those zerks so that they wouldn't get broken off so easily. If you drilled a hole in the head of the bolt enough for the zerk to recess in it so it wouldn't be exposed might work, but that might weaken the bolt too much but then again maybe not. Another thing would be to weld a nut or a short bushing on the head of the bolt to protect it might be better but the way I shake anymore that might be difficult for me but not for others that don't have that problem. If you had it recessed you could pump the recess full of grease after greasing the joint to keep the zerk clean until the next service job and clean it out and regrease the joint. On our equipment we had grease hoses at all the joints where it was safe to do so and had a one location grease block, and the joints where it wasn't practical we welded bushings around all of those.

 

[toy]

One more thing about the zerks on our attachments, on the mini hoe up next to the bucket there is one zerk that makes me feel that it is exposed too much and could get broken off easily as a matter of fact the last time I greased it the zerk was gone but it hadn't broke off in the hole so I put another one in. I was thinking that if after you greased the joint if I losened it just a bit then if it did break off then removal of the broke off piece would be easier. Where that particular one is located I could put a couple wraps of electrical tape around it to keep it from coming out. I hope this makes sense, what my intent with this post is a suggestion to help save someone from having a headache trying to remove a broken piece when that piece didn't in the first place have to be torqued so tight.

 

[MossRoad]

I've lost the grease zerk on my brush hog a few times... the one on the top of the pivot point that allows the deck to roll side-to-side. I think it is a tad loose on the threads and it just falls out from time to time. So much so that I am sometimes tempted to disassemble it and drill it out to the next size. However, it is in a place that is not protected from brush and abuse, to it is probably good that it is loose, so it it is snapped off by brush, the stub would be easily removed. I may think about your solution in regards to putting a ring around it.

 

[pajoube]

One more thing about the zerks on our attachments, on the mini hoe up next to the bucket there is one zerk that makes me feel that it is exposed too much and could get broken off easily as a matter of fact the last time I greased it the zerk was gone but it hadn't broke off in the hole so I put another one in. I was thinking that if after you greased the joint if I losened it just a bit then if it did break off then removal of the broke off piece would be easier. Where that particular one is located I could put a couple wraps of electrical tape around it to keep it from coming out. I hope this makes sense, what my intent with this post is a suggestion to help save someone from having a headache trying to remove a broken piece when that piece didn't in the first place have to be torqued so tight.

Heavy use on the mini hoe has shown me that I need to check for missing zerks after each use. On average I replace 3 each time. Never have they broken off but are just missing which suggests vibration to thread out.
PJ

 

[catsco]

JJ and all - thanks!
That is what I thought (that the swivel is only for avoiding stress due to imperfect alignment).
I agree w/MR that it would be good to be able to directly lube the bolt/sleeve where the rotation actually occurs.
When time hangs heavy (ha!) I might drill one of the bolts from the head end and another perpendicular (well cleaned up on the bearing surface) and add a zerk fitting to try it out.
Looks like a 3/32" to 1/8" dia. wouldn't take too much material away - still plenty of shear strength on the bolt assuming 36K yield or 24K working.

 

[MossRoad]

I'm fairly certain that my owner's manual shows grease zerks somewhere on the FEL mechanism in some locations that do not exist on the tractor. As I recall, after 8 hours of operation, I attempted to do my lubrication and could not find them. A call to the factory revealed they stopped putting the zerks in the location I was looking for and didn't update the manual. Now I will have to find my manual and see just where those points were.

 

[coolconnection]

As I said before, the ball should not rotate, but have a side to side movement.

I would loosen the sides to allow up and down movement, or you will be wearing both the center, and the ball, wearing out the race part of the assembly.

Thanks, I will do it tonight before I go out and clear the drive off from the 10" of snow we are supposed to get.