Plumbers - need some help with water flow

[kenmac]

Are you sure turning the screw out increases pressure? The "Watts" I dealt with was the opposite. See post #14

I've dealt with /installed all of them.. even gas regulators.. All of them screw in to increase pressure out to lower

 

[Code54]

Thanks - I went down after I read this and screwed it all the way down again, still getting the same pressure. Oh well worth a try! Now for the GPM issues. There has to be an obstruction!
I am also going to add a 2nd outdoor spigot tomorrow if all goes as planned (depends on if we get that 5-6" of snow they mentioned on the news, maybe plowing instead) so I am interested in seeing what I get through it. I plan on tapping off the main line about 30' past the pressure regulator so it should have good flow if everything is open and clean, well at least I would think so.
Again, thank you all for the help, thoughts, ideas and suggestions!!

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Before taking anything apart I would measure the pressure inside the house with the faucet open all the way. If the pressure drops significantly, you've got an obstruction somewhere upstream, could be at the pressure reducer or in your supply piping. If the pressure doesn't drop, look at your faucet.

Just googling, it seems that 40 PSI should give you around 8GPM through a regular outdoor faucet. So either you're not getting 40 PSI once the faucet is open, or something is reducing the capacity of the faucet.

 

[kenmac]

if he opens the spigot all the way or part way, he won't get anymore pressure.. he will only increase flow.If he opens all fixtures and spigots, his pressure and flow will drop

 

[CurlyDave]

With no flow you are going to measure line pressure.

If the regulator has even a very small leak, pretty common as they age, the pressure after the regulator is going to again be full line pressure with no flow.

The test I would do is to put the gauge on the hose spigot and then go turn the shower on full force. See what happens to the pressure under that condition.

* * * * *

It is not obvious to me why you would even need a pressure regulator if the service entrance pressure is only 44 psi. And, a pressure regulator can be a very significant flow obstruction.

But, before you do anything else, a diagram showing where the service entrance , the spigot, the regulator and the rest of the plumbing is would be very helpful. It does not have to be to scale, just show the way the pipes are connected. If you can't draw one on your computer, draw one on a piece of paper, take a picture of it and post that.

If I am remembering this correctly, you said the spigot where you are measuring pressure is before the regulator. If that is correct, there is a simple, inexpensive test which will show whether your major restriction is between the main line, or in the pressure regulator.

Get one of those Y-shaped splitters which allow you to connect two hoses to one spigot. Put it on the spigot and put the pressure gauge on one arm of the Y. Put a garden hose with an adjustable nozzle on the other arm of the Y, not just the nozzle, you really need the hose also. Then get a bucket and with the nozzle of the hose opened enough to produce fairly slow flow, measure the flow rate by timing how long it takes to fill the bucket (most buckets have marks showing volume at various levels). Write dow the flow rate and the pressure. Then open up the nozzle some more and time a higher flow rate, again measuring pressure. Do this 3 or 4 times at different flow rates, and plot pressure vs. flow rate.

From this article The Average Shower Head Flow | eHow it looks like you need about 1.5 gpm at 45 psi for a decent shower. If you have less pressure than that at the entrance with a flow rate of 1.5 gpm in the hose get back to us with the flow rate vs. pressure curve you have.

 

[kenmac]

I think he said the regulator was installed B-4 the line enters the house,therfore regulating everything

 

[Deere Dude]

I would press the city to find what the city pressure is. It should be a function of how high the towers are. My pressure is 120# at the hydrant outside but only 50# after the regulator as it comes into the crawl space. I would find it hard to believe it wouldn't be 60-70 PSI coming into the regulator. Then you can begin troubleshooting at that point. If 45# is what is coming into the regulator and you get slow flow then the regulator or the faucet might be getting plugged up or malfunctioning. Either way you need a known pressure to begin with.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I found an online pressure loss calculator. With 3900 feet of 3/4 PVC, a flow of 3.3 GPM calculates out to a drop of 44.3 PSI. So if you're seeing (coincidentally) 44 PSI with no flow that would imply zero PSI inside the house when the flow is at 3.3 GPM.

With one inch pipe, 3.3 GPM and 3900 feet of pipe the calculated pressure drop is 14 PSI.

The reason this matters is that it affects what options you have. If it's true that your supply pressure is 44 PSI, and you have 3/4" PVC pipe, then your options are limited. If your supply pressure is actually above 44 PSI and the regulator is holding it back, your best bet is to try and adjust or replace the regulator. If in fact you have 1" pipe and not 3/4", your supply pressure should be ample, you need to find out why it is underperforming.

Two solutions have been proposed: a booster pump and a storage tank. I think you would be disappointed by a booster pump. If you have 3/4" pipe, how much pressure would you need to get, say, 5 GPM? According to the calculator, 92 PSI. This is an additional 48 PSI; since you can only put the pump at your end this would have to be sucking. I'll skip the technical reasons and just say that you'll be unlikely to find a pump that can pull that.

A pressure tank might be a better bet. They're commonly available in 20 to 30 gallon sizes for around $150. This will give you more water, until you empty the tank. It would be a great improvement for the situation of flushing the toilet when someone is showering. Whether this is enough for pressure washing is hard to predict. You could easily test this for just the cost of the tank and some fittings. Get a hose Y and put it on your spigot. Put a hose adapter on the tank and connect it to one side of the Y. Connect the pressure washer to the other side of the Y. Fill the tank. When it is filled, start pressure washing, and see how long your water lasts.

 

[ultrarunner]

The neighborhood where I was raised was built in 1958...

Water Pressure has always been 170 psi and NOT a single home came with a regulator.

This really was not a problem for the first 20 or so years... folks had older toilets for brass ballcocks and brass irrigation sprinkler valves.

It started becoming a problem when the original items were replaced... the plastic sprinkler control valves and toilet valves would literally explode... the Temperature/Pressure Water Heater Relief Valves were always leaking... back in 1958 the heaters didn't have them.

I've installed 7 whole house regulators so far on Mom's street... always leave the front yard hydrant at full 170 psi. The inside pressure is 65 so the sprinklers work better and I did have to add stations because everything was designed around 170 psi.

 

[Code54]

UPDATE:
Today I took the pressure valve all apart and cleaned it - I mean cleaned everything I possibly could. This is what it started out looking like:

Once my son and I were done it was perfectly clean. I then worked on adding my second outside spigot and running all the lines for it. Once everything was done and dry we turned everything back on and did some testing. I tested everything at the same place as I originally did because I made no changes there.
Pressure again was about 42-44 PSI
Flow into a 1 gallon bucket - 10 seconds, try #2 - 11 seconds, try #3 - 10 seconds.
WOW, that is awesome, before I was consistently at 18 seconds a gallon before. Basically went from 3.3 GPM to 6 GPM. I am VERY pleased with this improvement. I know it is not great compared to other places but for us it the best we have ever had. Even noticed how much faster the commode refills.
I wanted to thank everyone that answered my post and gave me ideas and information on ways to improve our water flow. I figured it was something I was able to do myself but just don't know much about plumbing so the information was a huge help. Never knew the pressure valve had a screen or even gave it a thought. Again - Thank you all!