Plumbing 201 question, use all copper or iron?

Richard · Mar 28, 2006

Back to the shower project...I kind of hate making a new thread but this is about plumbing and not the shower.

So, to the task at hand...

The mixing valve I'm using is 3/4" so I've got 3/4" pipes to the valve and then I'll have 3/4" to each station (shower, hand held and body sprays)

The body sprays are my item of question here. Seems they fit flush on the wall, attaching to a 1/2" nipple that will be protruding from the finished wall. Since my wall is still studs, I don't know the real distance the plane of the finished surface will be from the plane of the studs (ie, how long to make it stick out).

I'll be making what I'm told is a manifold for the body sprays (3) by making a 3 rung 'ladder' and each sprayer will be on a rung. Here's what has me..

the manifold will be 3/4", the input of the sprayers will be 1/2", how do I transition to the 1/2" PIPE input?

(forgot my camera so cant post pictures yet)

1. I can get a 3/4" copper "T" and use one of them for my output line, stepping down to 1/2" threaded male end. Problem: I don't know how long to make it and if I make it too short, I'm screwed. If I WAIT to solder it in, the solder will be behind the finished wall and I won't have access to it... so that idea won't work as best as I can tell.

2. I could get a 3/4 x 3/4 x 1/2 IRON "T" with all sides of it female threads. I could simply put a long nipple on this so I can frame/durock/tile around it and when the time comes, pull the long pipe out and stick in a short nipple of proper size. "problem": (though I liked this idea) guy at Home depot said this was bad idea, that over time the galvonized would "rot out" (his word). he admitted it might take 20 years, but it would not last as long as straight copper (not that I'll BE here in 20 years).

So, those are the two basic ways I've come to regarding how to convert from sweated copper to a threaded pipe fitting for the water sprayer.

Side comment, I DID like the apparent larger opening on the 3/4 x 3/4 x 1/2 iron T over the stepped down copper T threaded male fitting. I'm trying to get as much water to these as I can for as LONG as I can and seems to me the iron "T" will allow that?

Any wisdom here?

Richard · Mar 28, 2006

Yikes, I forgot my 2nd question...

Can I take a threaded end connector, put my teflon tape on it, wrench it down into the fitting and THEN solder the pipe on the backside of it? (example: tape a 3/4" male end into the 3/4" iron "T" if that's in fact what I use...I would NOT tape and then solder anything to the actual plumbing valve, just another fitting)

Logic tells me that the teflon tape won't like the temperature needed to solder, then again, perhaps it won't mind.

Reason I'm wondering... if I solder them first and then screw the pieces together, I run the risk of when it's tight, having the other end (say the shower outlet) facing the wrong direction. (don't ask me how I know this from previous experience /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif)

So, I figure, if I could tape all my threaded connections first, get all parts aligned and THEN do my soldering, I'd be way ahead of the game.

kayssupply · Mar 29, 2006

NO IRON FITTINGS. You will get corrosion probems, rusty shower water, short life, NO. There is a fitting called a drop eared ellbow. It has a female thread and a sweat fitting. It has two ears with holes for screws. There is also a 3/4x3/4x1/2 tee in copper. You can allow for the thickness of backerboard and tile to figure out the length/depth of the drop el and a brass nipple to reach your body spray. Hopefully the spray head ( that you have in hand before you start) has an eschuchoen that will allow it to move in case you aren't exactly correct on your measurements.

CurlyDave · Mar 29, 2006

Copper is superior to iron in every way.

The reason iron pipes are installed larger than copper is that they develop scale on the inside over the years and effectively become smaller.

I would never build iron pipe into a wall. They ultimately scale up completely and reduce your flow to a trickle.

The way to get the length of the copper pipe right is either to solder a piece with a female pipe thread so that a copper pipe of the right length can be threaded into it after wall is finished, or to solder a copper pipe longer than necessary in the run perpendicular to the wall and then cut it to length when you are certain of the wall thickness.

If you are good (i.e. quick at making solder joints) teflon can take the temp. Amateurs get the joints too hot for too long and should try to avoid heating teflon. A wet rag wrapped around the joint with teflon will keep it cool during soldering.

Richard · Mar 29, 2006

wow...ok, seems the iron is out /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tell me... if I make a nipple out of 1/2" copper pipe with male threads sweated on both ends, will that be strong enough to take the torque when I screw it in & tighten it down?
That's one of my fears (having it twist on me)

I might add that thus far, I'm not sure how to incorporate drop ear elbows. My mental picture of the assembly will be like rungs of a ladder and the copper T on each rung will be pointed directly to the exit hole through wall. As such, inserting any elbow will take me off in wrong direction (although I suppose I could turn the T down on it's side so it's facing downward)...perhaps that would allow it to drain better too...

& thanks for the nix on iron pipe...

kayssupply · Mar 29, 2006

Use a brass nipple in the drop 90. you set the depth of your header by the length of the nipple. I make an outside loop and bring the tee branches off the side not in the middle.

tlbuser · Mar 29, 2006

Page 6 of this catalog shows two different typical "drop adapters" item 703-5 and 703-5B Nibco

You might have to get them from a plumbing supply house or on-line.
Either one would work for your application. After soldering this adapter on, then solder a length of pipe to a male adapter. Finish the wall around it, then mark and cut your pipe to length to fit your body sprays and showerheads. Depending on length, a brass nipple may be a better way to go, but they aren't as easy to cut to length .

Richard · Mar 29, 2006

Hot dang!!!

Both of those drop adapters would fit my bill!!! Not sure if I like the one with screws to the side or front BUT in either case, they are straight & not 90's!!

Thanks for that insight!

I swear, I tell the wife about this place all the time and she MUST think we all look at pictures of naked women here. Recently, she had a question on something or other (forget) and I asked it somewhere else... then I got the bright idea and told her I could probably post said question HERE and get better results back faster than the other place... low & behold I never DID get an answer back at the other place.

Thanks again.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Richard · Mar 29, 2006

I might add, I just got done flipping through their catalog and am STUNNED at the variety of parts & shapes that are offered /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I'm heading to Modern Supply later today (my local supply house that just HAPPENS to be across the highway AND have some cute girls that work in front...(but I'll deny having said that)) /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dmccarty · Mar 29, 2006

Richard,

I never would quote someone out of context but...

( ...she MUST think we all look at pictures of naked women here... )

Then you said, ( I might add, I just got done flipping through their catalog and am STUNNED at the variety of parts & shapes that are offered )

I hope you are talking about the plumbing catalog referenced earlier. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If not don't tell the wifey. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later,
Dan