Plywood for concrete forms

   / Plywood for concrete forms #51  
Wow!! This sure went off track. I apparently did not word my question correctly, but the answer appears to to be that either PT or regular plywood will work for me. So let me try again to describe what I'm doing. I'm putting a storm shelter inside my house. First of all there is already wood framed walls in place. I want to use the studs and nail 3/4" plywood to it as one side of the forms and use the form ties to provide the proper spacing of the plywood. Once the concrete is poured I will only have access to one side of the wall, so the forms on one side will have to remain in place. My concern had more to do with long term rot since the wood will always be in contact with the concrete. Then on the side I do have access to, since the plywood is already in place and the lath is the same thickness, why not just leave the plywood in place as the lath and I can mount anything anywhere on the wall. There's the moisture issue again. This was intended more as a question about after the concrete is poured and now ready to remove the forms, what happens if I don't. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Sounds like I will be fine using regular 3/4" plywood for the forms and leaving it in place permanently (with the addition of the proper bracing with 2x4s).

Since you are building a safe room, have you looked at this page from FEMA on safe rooms? https://www.fema.gov/media-library-...709/FEMA_P-320_2014-ConstructionPlans_508.pdf

One of my future projects is to build a safe room that will also act as a walk in gun safe. I'm planning on doing it just like they say on the FEMA plans. I think that it's well thought out and not very hard to do. Removing part of the existing foundation will be the most labor intensive, but it's not hard to cut concrete and jack hammer it out. Bending and tying rebar is straight forward, as is stacking block. The roof is going to be the toughest, and when I do it, I'm planning on leaving the plywood on it after pouring the concrete. I'm unsure if I will add plywood to the walls, or just leave them alone, or paint them white to make it brighter in there.

There are several sources for "gun safe" style doors. Prices seem to be from $3,500 on up. I don't think it's worth the effort and price of materials to try and make a door myself.

If you do this, please start a thread on your progress. I'm very interested in what you do and learn along the way.
 
   / Plywood for concrete forms #52  
Just to add to my previous comment. I have two clients that had new houses built inside the city limits of Tyler that had their master bedroom closet built as a safe room. Both have regular doors that swing out, and massive steel doors that swing in. The walls and ceiling are all concrete. I didn't see how it was built, and my clients are elderly ladies with a lot of money, but no building knowledge, so asking them questions never leads to usable answers. But the one thing they both told me is that the city inspector was super aggressive in how they vented the rooms. Both failed several attempts until finally passing the inspection. I don't know the details, and I can't see anything other then a vent on the inside. All I know is that when I build mine, I'm going to do a lot of research into venting it. You just never know how long you might be in there. I also have four very large dogs, and they will be in there with us if we feel the need to be in there.

Last year a tornado touched down ten miles away from my house and we where listening to the tornado sirens. I'm 15 miles North of Tyler, and that tornado was farther North, along Hwy 80 and Big Sandy. You just never know what will happen, or if it will ever happen, but that helpless feeling hearing the sirens, listening to the news and watching the reports on the TV and the computer really made me realize that I didn't have a safe place for my wife and dogs to go if it was heading our way.
 
   / Plywood for concrete forms #53  
since the op is simply trying to save a step of attaching wood to concrete to screw or glue drywall to cover concrete. i would just simply build your forms with 2x4's like most concrete work is done. once it cures, just simply attach furring strips with tapcons and glue. then you can do your drywall like you wanted to.

My method is the cartridge driven nail gun. Much faster.
 
   / Plywood for concrete forms #54  
Even after 6 pages there are still misconceptions about concrete being posted...

Here is some insight in layman's terms:

...Once the cure is completed the water is no longer needed in the concrete. It has not been "used up" nor has it "become part of the concrete". What has not drained out or evaporated is still there as water. As far as the concrete is concerned, it makes no difference if the water stays (pillars in the lake) or goes (columns on a building). In fact what eventually happens is that the water content of the concrete comes into equilibrium with its environment. If soil in contact with the concrete is dry, it will dry out the concrete. If the soil is wet, it will add water to the concrete. In fact for houses, foundation walls and often footings are covered with a moisture barrier to help keep the concrete dry -- actually to help stop the migration of water from the soil through the concrete and into the house.

In the same way, air humidity levels will come into balance with the concrete and most dry winter heated basements will dry out the 600 or so gallons of water in the original foundation mix in about two heating seasons or 18 months.

Sealing concrete can slow down water evaporation, but will not stop it. A concrete sealer's primary function is to prevent liquid water from soaking into concrete and secondarily to harden the surface reducing concrete dust formation.

In residential construction, if concrete still has mix water in it (we often call that "green" concrete or "young" concrete), there can be problems caused by that water as it evaporates out of the concrete. We see that with Ontario's bag insulation hung on basement walls with large quantities of water getting caught in the insulation as it tries to move toward the basement but hits that plastic sheet that is holding the insulation in place. With floor coverings put over wet concrete, whether the water comes from the original mix or from a drainage problem, unprotected materials will pick up that moisture and expand, sometimes to the point of destroying the floor.

So that is why we either want to wait for the concrete to dry before covering it, or take precautions to prevent the migration of water or water vapour to other building materials. If you look back at Mike's note at the top, I had mentioned in my database entry about self-levelling concrete that you should let the concrete dry out before putting anything on top of the new compound. The concrete compound couldn't care less, but the new floor covering could be destroyed by all that water, and there is a lot of water in self-levelling concrete that will dry out whether you want it to or not. The whole question is where will it go? I prefer to wait a couple of days and let it evaporate into the room where I can ventilate it outdoors rather than fight trying to protect a floating floor from all that moisture...
Myths and misconceptions about concrete and water
 
   / Plywood for concrete forms #55  
Wow!! This sure went off track. I apparently did not word my question correctly, but the answer appears to to be that either PT or regular plywood will work for me. So let me try again to describe what I'm doing. I'm putting a storm shelter inside my house. First of all there is already wood framed walls in place. I want to use the studs and nail 3/4" plywood to it as one side of the forms and use the form ties to provide the proper spacing of the plywood. Once the concrete is poured I will only have access to one side of the wall, so the forms on one side will have to remain in place. My concern had more to do with long term rot since the wood will always be in contact with the concrete. Then on the side I do have access to, since the plywood is already in place and the lath is the same thickness, why not just leave the plywood in place as the lath and I can mount anything anywhere on the wall. There's the moisture issue again. This was intended more as a question about after the concrete is poured and now ready to remove the forms, what happens if I don't. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Sounds like I will be fine using regular 3/4" plywood for the forms and leaving it in place permanently (with the addition of the proper bracing with 2x4s).

I'm guessing your existing wall is 16" on center 2x4 studs 8' tall?

If so, that's not enough bracing for a plywood form for an 8" thick wall.

You'll probably need to run horizontal 2x4s on edge perpendicular to the existing studs on the side opposite from the concrete to act as bracing. I can't remember the distance apart, but you'll need that bracing in both the vertical and horizontal axis's. If you only use the existing 2x4 studs backing the plywood, there's a decent chance the plywood will bow the 2x4 studs, they can snap, then you have concrete pile on your floor. And as we all know... its not easy to clean up.

Look at these forms and how they are built.
how to build concrete forms plywood - Google Search

When I did my barn foundation and walls, I made plywood forms following directions from the company that manufactured my form ties. I also rented the lock pieces that held the form ties outside the forms from the place I purchased from. As I recall, the locks were wedged in with the horizontal 2x4 bracing, and came out by hamering the bracing out. I'd have to go back in time to remember how they worked exactly.

You'll also need some temporary diagonal bracing perpendicular to the wall. It's a lot of weight to keep from tipping over. Even if its anchored at the top and bottom, it could tip over or blow out.

If you have a local concrete contractors supply store, go there and consult about which form ties to use, what types of form ties to use, connectors and locks, spacing of bracing, form release agent so you can pull a form off if you want, etc... that's the best place to get your hands on the products, and some instruction on how to use and assemble the parts to create a strong form.
 
   / Plywood for concrete forms #56  
Like these, as I recall...

7A4F6F69-3ED0-4E8C-8125-D6C8ED00D29B.jpeg
 
   / Plywood for concrete forms #57  
As for leaving the plywood on, it will have no effect on the concrete. The concrete will dry just fine. Think about the moisture barrier that gets put under a slab. It's solid plastic sheeting. NO water can penetrate down through it while the concrete cures. So that slab only dries through the top. Plywood left on one side of your wall, on that interior wall as you describe, will be fine. It will be nice and dry and remain that way for longer than you'll be around to prove us wrong. ;)
 
   / Plywood for concrete forms #58  
Even after 6 pages there are still misconceptions about concrete being posted...

Here is some insight in layman's terms:


Myths and misconceptions about concrete and water

/pine your post is misleading as it leaves out the first part of the discussion of the water needed for the chemical reaction. Your post is about the excess water remaining in the concrete
 
   / Plywood for concrete forms #59  
/pine your post is misleading as it leaves out the first part of the discussion of the water needed for the chemical reaction. Your post is about the excess water remaining in the concrete
Was not trying to mislead...the remaining water (eventually leaving the pour) was the point...
 
   / Plywood for concrete forms #60  
/pine your post is misleading as it leaves out the first part of the discussion of the water needed for the chemical reaction. Your post is about the excess water remaining in the concrete

Yea, it isn't a very good blog. The fact that cement is a hydrated compound that incorporates water (or OH) in it's structure. There may be excess water in the pour, more likely with lazy finishers without a design mix. A modern high stregth design mix may actually have close to zero excess water.
 

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