Pole barn concrete

[Rodmo1]

Hello all,

It is now time for me to do the concrete in my 24' x 28' pole building. I am looking for opinions on my plans and costs. The pour will be 4" thick 3500 psi mix. I have extra goat fencing that was removed for the building which I intend to use for reinforcement. I have a guy that offered to do the finishing for $1000. This includes the roughly 700 sq. foot interior plus whatever is left over from the 10 yards will be poured and finished as an exterior pad in front of the access door. Should not be larger then 60 sq. feet. The guy seems reputable as two friends vouched for him and he works for a large construction firm doing high volume commercial pours. I am responsible for the concrete ordering which looks like it will be $110/yard for a Saturday delivery.
Here are my questions/thoughts:
1. This price seems high as it will only be about 15 man hours max. plus under the table.

2. Guy told me not to bother with putting rigid foam around base of poles where they will contact concrete. Seems to me rigid foam will help prevent cracking from expansion of poles with humidity.

3. Guy told me not to bother with putting lines through pad for stress/crack relief.

Appreciate any thoughts or insight

Thanks,

Rod M.

 

[MarkV]

Price for the finishing seems high to me also but I guess that is a regional thing. I would never pour that large of area with out relief cuts. It is often said that it is not a matter of if concrete is going to crack it is a matter of when. I would rather control where the cracks are going to be.

MarkV

 

[Duffster]

Hello all,

It is now time for me to do the concrete in my 24' x 28' pole building. I am looking for opinions on my plans and costs. The pour will be 4" thick 3500 psi mix. I have extra goat fencing that was removed for the building which I intend to use for reinforcement. I have a guy that offered to do the finishing for $1000. This includes the roughly 700 sq. foot interior plus whatever is left over from the 10 yards will be poured and finished as an exterior pad in front of the access door. Should not be larger then 60 sq. feet. The guy seems reputable as two friends vouched for him and he works for a large construction firm doing high volume commercial pours. I am responsible for the concrete ordering which looks like it will be $110/yard for a Saturday delivery.
Here are my questions/thoughts:
1. This price seems high as it will only be about 15 man hours max. plus under the table.

2. Guy told me not to bother with putting rigid foam around base of poles where they will contact concrete. Seems to me rigid foam will help prevent cracking from expansion of poles with humidity.

3. Guy told me not to bother with putting lines through pad for stress/crack relief.

Appreciate any thoughts or insight

Thanks,

Rod M.

1- Get another price to campare, but it seems fair to me if he does all the labor including setup

2- The poles will more than likely shrink but if expansion joint makes you feel better than by all means use it (your the boss/owner)

3- I would cut it if it was mine, I would line the cut up with the posts( takes care of any problem mentioned in #2)

Dont waste your time with the goat fence, fence stretches to much for use as a reinforcment. Rerod is cheap compared to the overall project and concrete isn't something you want to redo

 

[ampsucker]

I would get another bid. Seems high if just doing the final finishing. If doing all the prep work, then it's a lot better.

"Dont waste your time with the goat fence, fence stretches to much for use as a reinforcment. Rerod is cheap compared to the overall project and concrete isn't something you want to redo".

Goat fence is much stouter than regular fence. If it's what I think it is (goats eat tin cans for fun, remember?) than it may be suitable and is better than nothing. Sometimes we use what we have. If it's a matter of throwing the goat fence into a landfill just to buy rebar, i would seriously consider throwing it into my concrete froms (with the proper setoffs to get it into the middle of the pad, of course).

I would use at least one expansion crack and possibly one at every pole if it was me. It may not just be the expansion of the poles but the flexing in the wind that helps get a crack started.

However and whatever you end up doing, keep the thing covered and wet for at least a couple of weeks. 28 days is the official cure time so up to that long will maximize strength. Cover it with plastic and keep it wet with a hose or rain or whatever you have to do for as long as you can.

amp

 

[Rodmo1]

Thanks for the quick responses. I should have added that I got one other bid last fall before I broke ground and they wanted about $2300 but that included (I believe) steel mesh plus they would have dealt with the concrete supplier. I think I may get an updated quote from them since it seems that they would take care of EVERYTHING (plus they would be insured). Seems like it would be worth it for an extra 1-2 hundred. I will definately put 1/2" foam around base of all poles after reading responses and will also insist on stress cuts.

What is a good slope from back of garage to doors for water drainage?

I am installing 9x7 garage doors...Plans call for exactly 7' from floor to header. I am concerned with the height not being perfect...Does anyone have experience with installing these doors? Is it better to go slightly higher just to play it safe?

Thanks,
Rod M.

 

[Duffster]

Thanks for the quick responses. I should have added that I got one other bid last fall before I broke ground and they wanted about $2300 but that included (I believe) steel mesh plus they would have dealt with the concrete supplier. I think I may get an updated quote from them since it seems that they would take care of EVERYTHING (plus they would be insured). Seems like it would be worth it for an extra 1-2 hundred. I will definately put 1/2" foam around base of all poles after reading responses and will also insist on stress cuts.

What is a good slope from back of garage to doors for water drainage?

I am installing 9x7 garage doors...Plans call for exactly 7' from floor to header. I am concerned with the height not being perfect...Does anyone have experience with installing these doors? Is it better to go slightly higher just to play it safe?

Thanks,
Rod M.

1/8"-1/4"/ft slope for good drainage

The vinyl door stop will take up about an 1/2" if you where to make the door exactly 9' x 7'

But when I frame garage doors I frame it 1" under sized, this allows you to be off by quite a bit and still have the door work good

 

[MikeD74T]

I am installing 9x7 garage doors...Plans call for exactly 7' from floor to header. I am concerned with the height not being perfect...Does anyone have experience with installing these doors? Is it better to go slightly higher just to play it safe? Thanks, Rod M.

Overhead doors install behind the opening not in it. If the opening is undersized there's just more overlap at the edges. However if the opening is oversized the wind will blow in around it. Unless you have height restriction I'd go with taller doors even if you have to go to low clearance hardware. Nothing worse than a door that's too short. MikeD74T

 

[JonKioti]

I've poured 5 slabs in the last few years and have only found one good guy to finish them.

Go with the company who does this professionally. There is NOTHING worse than wishing the idiot who finished your floor hadn't made the mistakes you will look at for the next 30 years.

You can use your goat fence, however for a small charge per yard I would recommend also using fibre mesh. This is a material that is mixed with the concrete at the batch plant that acts as rebar; looks like dryer lint. It's cheaper than steel rebar and more even.

Make your slope from your garage door slope the entire length of the interior, or as far back as possible. Good for washing things indoors.

You will get cracks in any slab bigger than 15' x 15'. Stress relief cuts will let you decide where you want these cracks. Your choice if you want them, but you can always fill them with silicone later. If they use a concrete saw to make them then you only have a 1/8" - 1/4" gap.

You didn't mention if the finish is a power troweled finish; this makes a difference to the price but a very nice floor too. I applied an epoxy floor finish to my latest slab - a very nice result on a 1000 square foot floor.

Finally, there is the expression "The bitterness of poor quality outlasts the sweetness of low price." This definitely applies to concrete finishers, so got one that is knowledgeable and is listening to you.

Let us know how you make out.

Cheers,

Jon

 

[uphill]

Call your local concrete company and they can provide a list of finishers. After talking to a few of them, I'm sure you will get an idea of a fair price for finishing, and probably could pick a good one just from talking with him on the phone. I also recommend the addition of fiber to the concrete for strength but it does complicate the finishing process. My finisher spent hours picking out the wads of fiber that rose to the top throughout the finishing process.

 

[tommu56]

I am installing 9x7 garage doors...Plans call for exactly 7' from floor to header. I am concerned with the height not being perfect...Does anyone have experience with installing these doors? Is it better to go slightly higher just to play it safe?

Thanks,
Rod M.

Will your stuff fit through a 7' door with out lowering the rollbar?

I got 8' so I don't for get and take out the door or frame like many others have on here.

tom

 

[radioman]

darn it ! tommu beat me to it but I'll chime in anyways. As for a door height, 7 is not high enough for most tractors with roll cage even for a BX. My regular garage has 9X7 doors and I have to put the stupid cage down when going in as I have hit the overhead several times already due to stupidity/forgotten. I built a garage extension with bigger doors due to the way my old garage door cannot be modified to make it higher due to roof eaves right at the garage door height. Take it from me, since you are building a door for it, GO BIGGER! 8-9ft is good start for most tractors.

 

[Duffster]

IIRC The OP's building is only 8' high so it will be hard to make a door any taller than 7'

 

[JonKioti]

I have an 8' ceiling and a 7'6" door with electric opener. If I didn't get the opener then I could have go away with only 3" of clearance.

You will need a low clearance kit, but it lets you put the right size door in.

My door was aa Garaga door - very nice door when it was installed.

Jon

 

[BX Tex]

You might consider recessing the floor in the area of the overhead door opening. Keeps rain and dirt from getting in. On mine, I used a 1 x 12 laid flat with the top side flush with finished grade .... or course the size of the board is dependent on the size of the door jambs... after concrete has set you can pop out the board leaving a 3/4" recessed area for your door to sit in.

 

[tandttravis]

in my area, concrete finishing is $.90 to $1.00 per sq ft , so 1k seems high to me. as for control joints, you need them, you can have them "edged" in or saw cut them after the pour. as for the foam around the columns, you can use sill seal gasket, or expansion joint, but as someone else said, the posts will likely shrink (as all pressure treated lumber does) and you will be left with a void. As others have said, I would talk to another contractor, that is licensed and insured, it doesn't seem as tough your saving any money using the other guy. I am a licensed contractor, so I have a problem with guys who are not licensed and insured, something goes wrong, and they give other contractors a bad name (just my 2 cents) good luck, Travis

 

[Rodmo1]

Thanks for all the responses. With hindsight being 20/20 I probably would have gone with a ten foot building. However with the building as is I am kind of limited to the 7' doors and the building is already framed out. The building is mostly going to be used for woodworking and parking of cars when it snows. My only tractor is a cub cadet model 71...about 45 years old...and very capable of fitting into building. I like the idea of recessing the floors at the openings and will try to include that in the quote that I am getting next Tuesday. Might someday get a cub-lo-boy for plowing but that should fit in fine also. On Sunday I will try to post some pictures.

Thanks,
Rod M.

 

[Rodmo1]

Thanks Travis, It is hard finding a price just for finishing of concrete. The more I thought about that quote it just didnt seem like a good deal to me anymore. I also didnt like the idea of ordering the concrete in my name and the risk of the guy and his crew not showing up when it was to be delivered. So it sounds like I will be going with a contractor. A local company is coming out on Tuesday to give me an estimate. I am hoping for it to be 2k or less. I will post what I find out on Tuesday. I might get a couple other qoutes too just to be sure.

Rod

 

[yooperdave]

8' high overhead doors are not uncommon.

I would not use anything less than an 8' high overhead door - regardless.

Good Luck

Yooper Dave

 

[2manyrocks]

I also suggest speaking with your local concrete supplier, but keep in mind your local concrete supplier may recommend finishers based on their own criteria such as somebody who has paid their bills, buys a lot of concrete from them, etc. I think you want to look at a job the finisher has completed before you make up your mind.

Once the concrete sets, it's set.

 

[Dargo]

It's certainly not my occupation, but I've been involved in every single pour at my place and I'm up to well over 1000 yards now. I've learned a lot along the way. Some of what I learned is that I don't like 'fiber-crete'. You know, the stuff that has 'kitty hair' mixed in with the concrete and is supposed to be stronger and take the place of wire and rebar. Don't believe it. The only concrete I have that is 4" thick is my sidewalks. Otherwise the thinnest is my 1/4 mile driveway, and it is 6-7" thick 5000 psi concrete with heavy gauge wire matting and rebar. It doesn't sound like you're going to have (nor could fit) anything really heavy, but I'd seriously consider going a bit thicker and a bit stronger. As mentioned before, it really sucks doing it again; even if it's ten years later. Around your edges I prefer the foam edging material that has the top 1/4" of it that pulls off. That way you can later seal it up with a good quality flexible concrete caulk. With no caulk I've found that bugs will tunnel through the foam and water is able to seep into it. If you live in an area that freezes hard, that is a really bad thing. The 1/4" layer of sealing caulk on top of the edging material prevents this.

I run some relatively heavy forklifts and equipment in my barns as well as having several lifts mounted to the floor. Depending on the areas of the barn, and what was planned to be built on them, my barn floors run from 8" to 12" thick. I also made sure to use a good vapor barrier. If not you'll get a lot of sweating on your floor. With my 12" thick areas I was able to pour 10" thick heavily reinforced walls and ceiling to make a walk in vault once I installed the vault door. Here's a few pictures of one of the pours.