Pole Barn Floor Leveling

[mburke121]

Well, as usual, I put the cart before the proverbial horse. I went out and purchased a 30x40x12' steel pole barn kit from Sutherland's, and arranged for them to erect the building (with a 3rd party contractor). Problem is, I neglected to first level the site.

The Sutherland's sales rep told me that the contractor would minimally level the site, and I incorrectly assumed that the site was just about level. I therefore thought it would be OK to install a gravel floor after the building was erected, and hopefully at a later date, when I recovered from the the expense of the building.

As it turns out, and as can be seen in the picture, the site falls off 22" from one side of the building to the other. From my calculations, I approximate that I will need about 100 cu. yds. of material to back fill the barn. I plan to put in a retaining wall on the low side, using some telephone poles, placed about 2' off the low side. Then I plan to backfill the barn floor with road rock (a mixture of small gravel and fines).

The material will cost me about $1,200 delivered. I am interested in hearing opinions on whether this is a good approach to solve my problem. I could use dirt on site - but I'm concerned that what I have does not have the consistency needed to form a firm floor. It will also take considerable time and effort to dig and move that much dirt. I welcome any input.

 

[beenthere]

I'd use your own dirt (and some tractor seat time) and pack it well. It will be dry so shouldn't be bad for fill. Top it off with gravel after a winter of freeze/thaw and more settling.

But I would put a water run around the upper side so that drains all the roof and water run-off away and around your nice looking barn. That will also help keep your fill dirt dry. No need to fill it all with expensive gravel as it just sets on the dirt that is already there.

Maybe plan some culverts or tubes under your driveway entrances.

 

[Carykong]

Fine opportunity for tractor time. You will be able to level your floor with the existing dirt and and boxblade. You can always go back and top your final grade with some gravel. Do not support using gravel to level your floor. Expensive. Nice shed.

 

[rimshot]

What ever you put there it has to have the ability to pack firmly and you no longer have Mother Nature and her rain to aid you. You don't say but do you plan on pouring a concrete floor eventually? It makes a difference because sand would pack well and if it is readily available in your area would work well for a concrete grade base.

If it were mine, I think I would have to forget about the retaining wall and get some more fill to dump outside tapering away from the building. Of course if you expect to drive on this fill you are going to need something with a granular base containing sized or crushed gravel. Don't just dump in 22 " of fill & running off. Pack the base in layers if you plan on future concrete.

rim

 

[mburke121]

Thanks for all of the input. I plan to start moving some dirt in the morning. I'll see how it goes, and post again if I think I need further advice. I'll also try to provide pictures of the finished project. The barn/shed was completed yesterday, so it's time to get out there and make it usable.

 

[jinman]

Thanks for all of the input. I plan to start moving some dirt in the morning. I'll see how it goes, and post again if I think I need further advice. I'll also try to provide pictures of the finished project. The barn/shed was completed yesterday, so it's time to get out there and make it usable.

If you have a rototiller, it can make your dirt collection job a breeze. Just till the area where the dirt is coming from to a level of 6" deep. You'll be able to easily scoop up the soil and save yourself considerable time.

 

[ray66v]

I would not use dirt.

It needs to be all clay, and is difficult to properly compact in tight places.

You want to use a stone/sand mix like 304.

Put it in 2" at a time, moisten, and compact with a plate compactor.

 

[Jim in ICT]

Mike, how about tilling up the upper half of the barn floor and dragging it over to the lower half? Lower one side while you raise the other. After packing, then fill to grade with AB3, a mix of clay and rock which packs very solid. A skid steer would also work well to dig & scoop out the dirt and compress the AB3.
What are you planning for using the barn for, just tractor / vehicle storage? Where did you find ground that has a slope in Kansas?

 

[RobertBrown]

I guess it depends on what you ultimately want to use the building for....

It doesn't look to me like your tractor is going to be very effective grading in the new barn. I think that model you have is too large. I would consider how much floor space you need using a hard floor and think about a stem wall or walls inside the barn making the interior a split level.
Using the lower area for a dirt floor. This area I would use for storing macahines such as the tractor or other equipment. The higher area would be where the hard floor or slab would be making good use of the extra overhead space.
Either that or skirt the lower end with a suitable metal and live with what you have.

 

[mburke121]

I appreciate all of the responses. I will be using the barn exclusively to store my tractor, implements and Ranger. I don't plan to ever pour a concrete floor. By the way, in answer to previous posts, I do not own a tiller (it's on my list), and yes, there are hills here in SE KS. That was the flattest piece of ground I could find for the barn. As I mentioned in my OP, I under-estimated the slope (a natural tendency, I believe).

I thought over all of the advice. I agree that my tractor is a little large for this work. But, I decided to give it a go. Yesterday I started moving some dirt, albeit very carefully. I will work in short increments, so as not to get fatigued and make a mistake I'll regret. I'm in no real hurry, as long as I finish ahead of the fall rains.

I plan to fill about halfway with dirt from on site. The soil is very dry, and the content here seems to be very high in clay. Once that step is complete, I'll plate compact, and then finish with AB3. I think I will be able to level the entire space.

As a side note, the builder offered to level it for me with a skid steer, but wanted $3500, and that was to use dirt on site. That was just too steep.

 

[rambler]

As a side note, the builder offered to level it for me with a skid steer, but wanted $3500, and that was to use dirt on site. That was just too steep.

Wow! I had the site for my 48x81 shed leveled for roight around $1000, came one day with a dozer. That was within about 6 inches of real flat. Had that done a few months & few rains before the builders came.

I had the floor leveled to perfection with a skid steer, several loads of crushed concrete, and more loads of gravel hauled in to make a driveway & floor for $2600.

They wanted that kind of money just to spread a little dirt for a smaller shed? Wow.

I agree you will have problems with settling & compacting it, as it won't rain in there, but I can see why you didn't jump at their offer!

--->Paul

 

[mburke121]

A few of you have commented on compaction, so let me ask a basic question - What's the down side of not having the floor tightly compacted? I assume I can expect settling over time, as I drive in and out of the shed? Are there any other issues with this? If not, I don't have a problem if I have to add material every year or two for a couple of years to keep things leveled. I also don't mind if the floor gets a little uneven. Am I missing something?

 

[jenkinsph]

I think you will find it to be a mess without compaction. It was suggested to put the dirt in in 2" layers, compacting between each layer. I think that is your best bet. Finish off with a six inch layer of engineered fill and thin layer of gravel on top. I should add you will need to sprinkle water on to help it pack tight between the layers.

The problem with not compacting the soil is it will settle unevenly, You will have ruts where the tractor is and soft spots in the corners and edges.

I suggest you look into buying a good used compactor for about $750 that you could resell after this is over. I bought a used Bomag plate compactor about two years ago for $700 and kept it since I can use it about 10 days a year. That is cheaper than renting or buying a new one. Most rental stores will have all types of decent used equipment for sale at all times.

 

[Jim in ICT]

Around here you could rent a skid steer for about $250.00 per day with trailer. If you've never run one, you should give it a go, especially one that accelerates and turns with one hand control and digs and dumps with the other. Easier than steering with the left and right controls and dig and dump foot controls. I really enjoyed using one to do my digging work.
Best time I ever had with my pants on!

 

[rambler]

The uneven settling & rutting will show up as more of a headache than you think over time.

You can spend the time doing it right now; or you can spend years trying to get it right.

Think of how you are in this spot to begin with - you shoulda got it level before the building was started. now oh darn, gotta fix it up after the fact.

If you don't try to deal with the settling issue, then nexy year, you'll be 'oh darn' again, as you realize your shelves are falling over, you have to clean _everything_ out of the shed to level it up again, and in a year later it will be uneaven again....

We're just trying to save you from a mess later on.

My big shed, we waited 6 months before pouring a 1/2 concrete floor. The other half, now after a monumental rain, the post holes they dug settled first last month! Big depressions formed after much digging, leveling, compacting. I'd sutter to think what that floor would be like if I tried dry-filling it after the building was up. I just pulled some 300 bu full wagons into it, I think they would have sunk & I'd rip up the floor trying to pull the wagons out - get stuck in the soft dirt.

I realize you are smaller scale, but really the same idea.

Just trying to save you labor & re-working down the road.

--->Paul

 

[scorpian5]

It looks like your building should have more bracing.

 

[2manyrocks]

Did the contractor discuss your site with you before he got so far along it was too far gone to turn back?

Reminds me of a carport around here that the installer threw up on unlevel ground.

 

[jinman]

Keeping a dirt floor in a pole barn is a guarantee of dust, dust, and more dust. When the native soil drys out, it will produce dust. Sand and pea gravel will reduce the dust considerably, but nothing like concrete or asphalt. I'd prep that floor with a topcoat of coarse sand and pea gravel no matter what fill you chose. The dust in my wife's old dirt floor barn was stifling. She put hay down in stalls for the animals and you had to have a mask on to move the hay around. It seemed like the clouds of dust never settled. I guess if you wet the floor down often, it would reduce the dust, but that seems like a hassle.

 

[MESSMAKER]

I would go at it a couple of ways. I would start with a retaining wall and skirt to hold the material in. I would make sure I had good drainage. Get a couple loads of fill dirt and dump on the low side. Use a tractor and box blade to move it around the best you can. Rent or hire a Bobcat to touch it up and spread some glass sand or fine gravel on top. You don't need it to be dead level. just get close. A few years later when you need new gravel, work on any spots you are not happy with.

 

[sunnyside360]

As a side note, the builder offered to level it for me with a skid steer, but wanted $3500, and that was to use dirt on site. That was just too steep.

I just completed a similar project but my building was 42'x72' and built by Morton Building. The rough excavating was done last fall and the bldg pad was supposed to be within 1" of level. When Morton constructed the bldg 2 mos ago I found the pad was out of level by about a foot or about half of what yours is off. Another excavator came over with a track skid steer and fixed it by leveling the dirt inside and then leveling 44 tons of 2A stone. On the outside, the excavator moved clay dirt around the building and tapered away from the bldg for running water away. The excavator also used a backhoe to put in 280 ft of 4" drain pipe (each corner) to carry water away from the down spouts. Received the invoice for this work yesterday and am just writing the check today for $3024.
I think you could have your job done for much less than what I paid. You might get a couple more bids priced by time and material used (what I did).
Good luck.

Edit/add: The $3024 also included digging 140 ft long trench 3 ft deep for my underground electric service wire.