Pole Barn Floor Leveling

[mburke121]

Thanks again for all the replies. I really appreciate how the good folks on this site are so willing to passionately share their experiences and advice. It really is an awesome resource, and I benefit greatly every time I post.

I installed a retaining wall along the low side over the weekend, and moved in about 25 buckets of dirt. I have about 100 tons (~75 cu yds) of AB3 being delivered tomorrow. I talked to a buddy of mine who owns a skid steer, and he offered to come over next week and help me finish the project. We are going to fill about half way with dirt, level, water down, and compact with the skid steer, cover with a vapor barrier, and then top with AB3. Then we'll add water and compact again, and hope for the best.

I will share the pictures and the story when the project is complete. I definitely learned a tough lesson here.

Mike

 

[CurlyDave]

I'll plate compact, and then finish with AB3.

I think a plate compactor is exactly the right tool to compact inside the barn.

There are times when a plate compactor will tend to "run away" from me. Possibly my weak old body. I would consider some kind of bumper, like a 4x6 spanning between poles, so the compactor doesn't dent your walls.

You definitely need to divert water run off from the high side of the building.

 

[Mike Costello]

This situation is exactly what I faced when I built my 30X60 shop building. I had a guy level the building pad and we thought it was right on. However when construction began it was obvious there was a problem. The actual drop was from 0 to about 15" right to left. So, the builder installed pressure treated bottom headers in the appropriate places gravel was put into the interior area and leveled. Concrete was then poured to create a nice floor. Later that year, I created a gravel berm around the building to aid in water control and to give it a finished look. Its worked out well for me.

 

[mburke121]

Mike, that looks very nice. This gives me some encouragement as I enter into the meat of my project in the next couple of days.

 

[Mike Costello]

Mike, that looks very nice. This gives me some encouragement as I enter into the meat of my project in the next couple of days.

I hope my post gave you some ideas to work on. I would also tell you to put down gravel as a floor base as others here have stated. Dirt floors are incredibly dusty and hard on equipment, not to mention your lungs. With gravel you also have the added benefit of pouring concrete at a later date if so desired. Your project is looking great--Good luck! Mike.

 

[bp fick]

Since you don't have a tiller to "create" you own dirt, or easily move existing dirt to grade, then just have aggregate material delivered. What you saved over the builder's quote will easily pay for the delivery of a nice, crushed concrete or similar, highly compacting product.

As has been said, get it done. You can worry about perfection somewhere down the line. Eventually, you'll want to have a poured floor, perhaps.

Until then, path of least resistance.

As for a dry interior, any "dirt" based product does indeed become dusty when dried out inside a barn. I hated it. Taking in a hose and giving a spray down, once or twice a year is a godsend. This simple dust control measure lasts a good long time. I've found far less dust issues with aggregate installed then with the original dirt. It was awful.

 

[Mike Costello]

Another often overlooked consideration is moisture control in a pole barn. I once leased a property that had a pole barn with a thinly graveled (and I mean thinly) floor and no insulation. It was miserable to work there in winter and even worse in the spring-summer. The interior literally sweated and dripped moisture. All my tools, saws etc. began to rust right before my eyes. Plus, the musty smell was overpowering. I made it my mission to find a better way when I built my own shop on property I now own. The result was insulation and a concrete floor when my new shop was built. That, and plenty of ventilation went along way in making the shop enjoyable to work in year around. Mike.

 

[KB9UDE]

We are building a new 64x40 pole barn at my folks for a shop area. I have been using clay and compacting it for the filler base until its time for rock and concrete.

 

[Dargo]

I'd be concerned about losing your floor without any overhang on any side or gutters. If you get much rain, it will drill a trench a foot deep in one season and keep going each year. I've seen several guys lose their concrete floor as the sides gave out. I wouldn't consider a barn without guttering. Personally, all of my barns have at least a 1' overhang and 6" gutters to keep water away. You'll be amazed, and sick, with what water will do to you.

 

[mburke121]

I plan to install gutters just as soon as I can find someone to come out and do an estimate.

Here's a picture I took of my progress today. I'm pleased with the way it's turning out. I have about 3 hours or so left to complete the work.

The material seems to be working out well. If I have to adjust down the road, with insulation, different aggregate topper, etc., it shouldn't be a problem. I am using a vapor barrier to try to control moisture wicking from below. They are calling for rain tonight, so tomorrow I should be able to gauge how my drainage is looking.

 

[wedge40]

Wow.. I feel for your dilemma, but looks like you have gotten some great suggestions from the TBN'ers here. It seem like it would be worth renting or for that matter purchasing a transit or laser level to make sure before you have a level pad before the people come in to build.
I have a Dewalt laser level with a detector.(DW073KD,DW0734, DW0736 approx $450) I'm 8" off from the high point and want to get down to 1" or so for the whole area. I did luck out in that I working an area that is already the high point and everything else slopes down from there. It's just a matter of leveling the peak.
I really need the barn, but I'm taking my time as I work through these details.

Wedge

 

[Dargo]

I plan to install gutters just as soon as I can find someone to come out and do an estimate.

Too bad you're not closer. I just didn't think and the gutter guy I hired does good work but isn't too bright and he put regular 4" gutters on my 80X120 barn. All it took was an average rain and water was pouring over the gutters everywhere. I was amazed at how fast it cut a surprisingly deep trench down each side of my barn.

He offered to put the proper 6" ones on at no additional charge, but I felt partly responsible, so I split the cost with him. I used about 100' of the "old" 4" gutters on a rent house, but the rest is just sitting behind my barn for now. You can easily get by with 4". I suppose the gray color of my gutters wouldn't look too good on your barn though.

With that larger barn, I screwed 2X8 treated lumber on the outside of the posts below the metal then back-filled the outside with dirt and the inside with many truckloads of #11 gravel. I had Graber Post Buildings Leaders in Post Building Manufacturing | Graber Post Buildings, Inc. (a large Amish company build that barn. They have over 150 employees now. Anyway, after building literally thousands of barns, that's what they recommended. They highly discouraged using dirt (even my very high clay content dirt) for fill.

Since I put in all sorts of plumbing runs under the 8" concrete floor, I didn't want any problems, so I took their advice. As to keep it from looking like the barn was on a bubble, I back filled a gradual grade that, in places, extends 15' to 20' from the barn. I used plate compactors, a medium sheep foot roller and lots of driving over it with tractors and dozers. Still, about 3 years after it was built, I can see where that outside fill has dropped almost 6". That would cause a big problem if it were inside!

It definitely cost me more to buy all that #11 gravel and have it compacted inside, but all is well. Sometimes it just costs more to do things the right way. You know, the 'pay me now or pay me later' thing. Good luck to you!!

 

[bp fick]

Progress! Good to see.

In the one progress photo, you have a railroad tie holding aggregate back against the building. What you could do now, for appearances sake, would be to scrounge up free dirt from around your place. Use a box blade or middle buster to scrape up soil. Scrape up a pile with FEL and move it to provide a taper up to that railroad tie. Once that has all settled and compacted, you could do this again and again. You could even pin another tie on top of the existing one. Taper back from that height. Long taper, say, 15'. You could even get a ground cover plant to sink roots on top of it.

In other words, your grading up to the building does not have to be abrupt.
Over the coming months, just improve it a little, bit by bit. Looking good.