pole barn squareness?

mopower440 · Dec 22, 2003

dumbdog, thanks, thats what i was thinking, Junkman, what do you mean secure the 2x4 brace to the girts? I always see the brace running from post to post..?

Also, next question, actually 2.
1.--when i start putting up the truss supports, how do i make sure i stay level all the way from the front to the back,? I used a level on the first side but it didnt work to good because of the lumber being bowed some..?
2.-- when i put up the truss supports on the opposite wall, how do i be sure to keep them EXACTLY level with the ones on the opposite wall? In other words, my building is 24 ft. wide, so if i had a 24 ft. level to run accross the thing, that would work, but obviously i dont, so what do i do? dont want the roof to be on lopsided..
thanks again for all your help everyone, this has definately been a job~!

Junkman · Dec 22, 2003

What I was saying was to run the diagonal bracing from top of one post to the bottom of the next post and then to reverse the diagonal bracing on the other side of the post so when you step back, it will look like an X between the posts. If you are familiar with "let in" bracing procedures, you can use this procedure on the outside of the building where the sheathing is placed. A lot of the comments that have been made assume that you have some level of carpentry skills and methods. If you are lacking these, it is better to ask the questions looking for further explanation than to proceed and possibly create a dangerous situation.....

rambler · Dec 22, 2003

50' of clear tube, some dye (if you want) and filled with water makes a great level for things like you are doing. That is how they did it before laser levels.... If you keep the air bubbles & kinks out, the water will be level on both ends of the tube.

--->Paul

CTyler · Dec 22, 2003

A line/string level would do what you need. Just make sure its pulled really tight. Zip the level across the string and check it in a few spots to be sure its not sagging anywhere. A a self leveling rotating laser would be darn handy. I bought a Robolaser w/remote this summer for various jobs and it is sweet!

Junkman · Dec 22, 2003

( 50' of clear tube, some dye (if you want) and filled with water makes a great level for things like you are doing. That is how they did it before laser levels.... If you keep the air bubbles & kinks out, the water will be level on both ends of the tube.

--->Paul )

Paul... I have used these and have used windshield washer fluid in the tube, however after my last experience, I no longer will. It seems that at a certain point the surface tension in the tube will restrict the flow of the liquid and it will not be exact. It all depends on what you want to level and how accurate it must be. I see it as a crude tool for a crude measurement. Today, it is faster and more accurate with a spinning laser level. I have noticed that the prices are dropping like a stone on them from when I purchased mine. Still worth every penny that I paid in time savings alone....

SteveBenson · Dec 22, 2003

I used a water level on my barn. I found it to be fairly accurate, but it took a long time because it's a trial and error process and you have to wait for the water to settle down after every attempt. A rotary laser would be the way to go. You can rent them a most rental places now.

mopower440 · Dec 22, 2003

Junkman, but how do i put the cross brace on the outside of the posts because there is already the girts on the outside? also Junkman, about getting the truss supports level with the ones on the wall across from it , and even keeping them level on one side, how do you use that laser level? My dad has one, i dont know if its a rotating one like you speak of, but, please explain, if it will work, that would be great, please explain. and thanks!

Junkman · Dec 22, 2003

to say the least, I know nothing about pole barn building, but I do know about wood construction methods. I believe that you would have to remove the girts and set the bracing. A "let in" brace is a diagonal brace that is set into a cut in the beam and nailed in place. It is done by resting the brace against the beam where it is going to go and making a pencil mark on the top and bottom of the brace where it crosses the post. Then using a circular saw that is set to the depth of the brace, usually 1 1/2", you cut out the area between the top and bottom pencil marks. Then you chisel out the remaining wood so the brace sits even with the face of the upright post. Then reinstall your girts.
A rotating laser level has a receiver that beeps when it is sensing the signal from the laser. If the beep is one tone, it means that the sensor is high. If it is a different tone, then it is low. If it is steady, then it is exactly at the level of the rotating beam. Different brands work slightly differently than described, but for the most part, they are all similar.
The truss supports would be done the same way as described above using the laser level and then measuring up the beam to where you want to place them.
I hope that these instructions make sense to you, but I am not a technical writer and it might not be as clear as someone else might explain it. If you need additional help, I am certain that more experienced people here will come to your rescue. Pole barn building is unlike a stick built house construction, which I am familiar with. The only reason that I can help you with the bracing is that it is commonly used in home building and the principals are the same...

CTyler · Dec 23, 2003

( about getting the truss supports level with the ones on the wall across from it , and even keeping them level on one side, how do you use that laser level? )

You'll need a hanger to hold up the laser at the hieght you need. You can buy one thats moveable or screw something up to set it on.

When mine was build they shot it then shimed the truss if needed. Were only talking a 1/2" max here. There were several that needed to be shimmed.

One you have the laser up and start shooting you'll see where your at all the way around.

SteveBenson · Dec 23, 2003

mopower440,

You are getting some advice in different techniques of post-frame construction. On one side you are getting some advice referring to the more traditional methods that involve notching the posts to accept the girders, girts, and bracing. The traditional approach is probably better suited when using round or roughly cut poles.

The modern (or maybe I should just say less-traditional) approach is just to simply nail your girts to the outside of the posts and nail your sidewall girders to the inside and outside of your posts. Since the girders are taking the load of the roof simply nailing them to the posts is not sufficient. Instead of notching the girders into the posts to support the heavy load, "scab boards" are nailed to the post below the girders to provide additional support for the girders. Typically, on a 6x6 post you would nail a 2x6 on the post between the girder and the topmost girt (about a 20" 2x6 if you are using 2' girt spacing) and put about a dozen nails in it. This effectively gives you a notch for you girder to sit in without having to notch the pole. You need a scab board below both the inside and outside girder, though you may not have girts on the inside of you posts. I’m not an expert when it comes to scab boards, but I would make sure they are at least 18”. If they are too short the wood might split around the nails. Girts aren't loaded heavily so you can just nail them to the post. But, make sure you use pole barn spikes. They are case hardened and ring-shanked. Regular nails don't cut it in this type of post-frame construction. This especially important the bigger your building is.

If I were to use a 2x4 brace top-to-bottom brace with the modern post-frame construction I would probably just cut it to butt up against the posts and nail it to the inside of the girders and skirt board right where they meet the post. I would also nail it to all the girts it intersects as a long 2x4 like this (I guessing at least 12') will not support much of a load in compression without buckling. Securing the brace to the girts will significantly strengthen the brace. Also, if you put one of these braces at each end of the wall then one will always be in tension and one in compression when the building is subject to a wind load. That's a good thing. This is like the X bracing that was mentioned, but it is not necessary for the braces to actually cross and form an X. A V shape with a post (or several) in the middle is just as effective. A top-to-bottom brace is a large brace. I wouldn’t think you would need to put a top to bottom brace between every set of poles. For a 24x30 you probably could just put 2 (counter-acting) per wall at the corners.