Pole Barns Basics - what to do, what to avoid

   / Pole Barns Basics - what to do, what to avoid #1  

rs191

Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2002
Messages
27
Location
Adirondacks, NY
Tractor
BX2200, bought June 2000
We just bought a new home, which has a one-year-old 30 x 40 pole barn. The seller did not provide much information about the pole barn. It has a poured concrete floor, which was done after the town inspector signed off on the place. Based on some reading on TBN, this could be an "Alaskan slab", since you can see for a few inches under the edges of the barn from the outside. It is sitting on concrete piers, according to the plan and according to what can be seen from the edges. There are stairs up to a full-sized storage loft. There is no protective railing around opening at the top of those steps and the hand railing on the stairs doesn't even reach the top - like they ran out of wood.

The plan submitted to the town shows a metal roof and stairs in a back corner of the building. They put on asphalt shingles (heavier?) and the stairs are near the middle of the building. Don't know what else they did that didn't follow the engineering design. This is upstate NY, near Saratoga, so 30" snowfalls are possible.

The wall posts have two bolts and nuts near the top. Many of those bolts seem too short, because I can see the ends of the bolts do NOT engage all the threads of the nut.

A locksmith, who said he had been a carpenter for 25 years, pointed out several things about the building yesterday. When two horizontal boards meet over a wall post, having two stacked bolts through the middle of the post won't engage the horizontals properly He recommended adding two more bolts at the top of each post. (The locksmith "retired" from carpentry after a fall and other injuries.)

That retired carpenter also said I shouldn't put too much weight in the loft. Other than 2x4s stabilizing the stairs, there are no supports for the loft in the middle of this building. He can see the two-bys spanning the width are only held together in the middle by "mending plates".

I am looking for a company that builds pole barns and ask for an overall assessment of this giant shed. Besides the construction quality, the seller hadn't put drains or gravel around the building. After less than one year, there are 3"-6" erosion ditches below the roof edges. So drainage and possibly gutters are also going to be looked at.

Opinions on where to start? Yes - it was inspected by the town and an inspector we hired. I want to make this a durable struction, not a temporary one.
 
   / Pole Barns Basics - what to do, what to avoid #2  
Barns are often done on a low budget, or by low skill labor, which can leave them lacking structure.

If you post some clear photos of the overall construction, and any areas of concern, I'm sure you can get an accurate assessment from the members.
 
   / Pole Barns Basics - what to do, what to avoid #3  
Don't worry about the roof trusses - they were surely engineered and made by a reputable truss company. If there is an attic room, it is surely made to hold some weight. My 30' wide attic-room trusses have a 2x10 bottom chord to span a 15' wide room. Yours similar?

But yeah it sounds like you might want to add more structural support from the posts to the truss carriers (headers). My 30x36 pole barn used 4x GRK structural screws from each side into the posts, instead of carriage bolts like yours. You could go around and blast some more GRKs into each post.
 
   / Pole Barns Basics - what to do, what to avoid #4  
I am looking for a company that builds pole barns and ask for an overall assessment of this giant shed. Besides the construction quality, the seller hadn't put drains or gravel around the building. After less than one year, there are 3"-6" erosion ditches below the roof edges. So drainage and possibly gutters are also going to be looked at.

Opinions on where to start? Yes - it was inspected by the town and an inspector we hired. I want to make this a durable struction, not a temporary one.

That sounds like an excellent plan. And this is the right time to do it. You already have a fairly new structure with the required inspections...now just need to make it better.

It is difficult to offer structural suggestions without actually seeing the building - but I like your approach to taking an economy barn and making it better. Finding an old retired carpenter to help create an overall plan would be my own approach too.

It seems that the weather pattern is producing larger storms recently. Ultimately, that may make changes to "minimal suitable construction". Might as well get ahead of that curve.
rScotty
 
   / Pole Barns Basics - what to do, what to avoid #6  
I'm sure we'd all like to see some pictures but it sounds like you've got a general idea of the issues. I don't like shingle roofs on pole barns but that's what you have. Is the truss spacing 4 foot or 8 foot? With 4 foot you probably have some margin left in roof load, 8 foot not so much. My immediate concern would be drainage. If you have slope to drain to, I would dig a trench at least a foot deep all around the building, add drain tile and backfill with gravel.

Is the loft over the entire building? How high? I'm having a little trouble envisioning this.
 
   / Pole Barns Basics - what to do, what to avoid
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Thanks for the replies with info and good advice! I will try to attach photos here and see how it looks. Have several more to post if the first photo works.

The floor and garage doors (w/openers) were done by contractors and look good. All the friends-and-family DIY construction is what I want checked out by good pole barn companies. Getting callbacks from contractors is the hard part around here.

One entrance door, two garage doors, one homebuilt small "door" in farthest corner of barn from the camera was used for Deere riding mower. Weathered particle board was the "ramp" used for the lawn mower. Just the one window over the garage doors.

CB box is next to entrance door. One outlet is by the CB box and the other two outlets are mounted by the two garage door openers. No lights, inside or out. No other outlets.

Seller had five Harbor Frt LED garage lights chained together, hanging at the same height as the door openers. He ran a long extension cord from the one power outlet to the first overhead light in the chain. When we did the walkthrough just prior to the closing, the extension cord and HF lights were gone. They weren't permanent, so it was his legal right, but I didn't expect it - considering how much we paid over the asking price.

Land slopes away on the right side, as you can see. The slope behind the building is much steeper, heading towards a cliff about 75 ft. away.

1696602193265.png
 
   / Pole Barns Basics - what to do, what to avoid
  • Thread Starter
#8  
1696603196090.png

Many (most?) of the posts have unused threads on the bolts. First thought - install GRK structural screws as recommended by "deezier" and then see if the existing "short" bolts can be, one-by-one, replaced.
 
   / Pole Barns Basics - what to do, what to avoid #9  
If the "loft" is actually formed in the trusses, there should be some standard loading capability. Again what is the spacing? For a loft, they should be residential trusses, not agriculture and have two foot spacing.
 
   / Pole Barns Basics - what to do, what to avoid #10  
View attachment 825514
Many (most?) of the posts have unused threads on the bolts. First thought - install GRK structural screws as recommended by "deezier" and then see if the existing "short" bolts can be, one-by-one, replaced.

Well.... I think we see what you mean. That photo kinda says it all.
Is that pex or power draped over the drywall screw?

Structually, many MEs consider that three fully engaged threads will develop the full strength of a nut.... the rest are for backup. However, those are ridiculous. Surely those joints were not inspected.

BTW, with the GRKs It makes no sense to put multiple structural screws on the same vertical line. Might want to offset them laterally.

rScotty
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

Vermeer BC1800A Chipper (A48837)
Vermeer BC1800A...
2017 Dodge RAM 1500 4WD Pickup Truck (A50860)
2017 Dodge RAM...
2016 FREIGHTLINER M2 26FT BOX TRUCK (A50505)
2016 FREIGHTLINER...
2014 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Crew Cab Pickup Truck (A48081)
2014 Dodge Ram...
2022 Load Trail Trailer, VIN # 4ZEUT1827N1269100 (A48836)
2022 Load Trail...
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 4X4 (A50397)
2020 Dodge Ram...
 
Top