Pole building: to slab or not to slab

[Steve C]

20 20,

I figured you where talking about asphalt pavement. I don't know what would be wrong with it for Keegs' uses. The only downside I can think of is oil drips might eat into it, and it may not be as fire safe as concrete.

It would be unusual around here, but that don't make it a bad idea

Dave.

A friend of mine has a barn with blacktop for a floor. He has told me it is the worse thing he ever did. It seems that it won't cure without being exposed to the sun and has remained "soft" for the last 15 years or so. I don't know if he just got defective material, but now that I think of it I have never seen asphalt paving used in an enclosed structure other than his barn.

He bought the place and it had a dirt floor at the time. He wanted the driveway paved with blacktop. When the crew was there doing the drive he asked them to pave the barn also as it added very little to the overall cost. He has a small cube van truck that he likes to park inside to keep it out of the weather. The tires make ruts in the floor. He claims that the dirt floor was harder, at least his truck didn't make ruts in it. I don't know anything about asphalt paving, but this is what I have been told. Perhaps someone with blacktop/asphalt paving experience can tell us how it works.

 

[dave1949]

Hi Dave,

Do I understand this is to serve as a saddle or threshold or sole plate...at the base of the door and somewhat burried in compacted stone?

This horizontal member that's partially in the ground then gets lagged into the vertical door frame at the base?

It's horizontal, it's a threshold, it should be above your finished driveway height by 1" to keep rain out but not too high to drive over. The seal on the bottom of the overhead door will close down on it.

The compacted stone beneath it is to keep it from sagging when you drive over it, the rebar pins are to keep it from being pushed in or out when you drive over it.

It will be cut to fit between the vertical posts/poles on each side of the overhead door opening. It gets lag bolted to pressure treated 2"x10" boards that run around the circumference of the building at/in ground level, inside and out. All the wood will be surrounded by stone, it will drain and not rot.

If you don't use an inside 2x10, I would worry that while you are compacting the stone, you will be bowing the walls out between posts. Maybe I am a worry wort

It's a bit different but I believe it will work and be inexpensive. I used the same technique when I built some terrace-style exterior steps. The steps were concrete pavers, I boxed them in with 4"x4' treated posts. Everything was above the frost line and it stayed in place and stable. For extra caution against frost heave, you could lay 2" foam foundation board under it, like a shallow frost protected foundation.

Maybe pole building suppliers have a metal pre-made overhead door threshold that really seals and stays put?

Hope this helps.
Dave.

 

[dave1949]

A friend of mine has a barn with blacktop for a floor. He has told me it is the worse thing he ever did. It seems that it won't cure without being exposed to the sun and has remained "soft" for the last 15 years or so. I don't know if he just got defective material, but now that I think of it I have never seen asphalt paving used in an enclosed structure other than his barn.

He bought the place and it had a dirt floor at the time. He wanted the driveway paved with blacktop. When the crew was there doing the drive he asked them to pave the barn also as it added very little to the overall cost. He has a small cube van truck that he likes to park inside to keep it out of the weather. The tires make ruts in the floor. He claims that the dirt floor was harder, at least his truck didn't make ruts in it. I don't know anything about asphalt paving, but this is what I have been told. Perhaps someone with blacktop/asphalt paving experience can tell us how it works.

Well, that's scary. Maybe that's why it's unusual Or the garage 20 20 speaks of had a different mix of asphalt. I have never seen asphalt put on dirt, always compacted stone. Maybe that is important. It's a mystery. We need a asphalt expert.
Dave.

 

[Steve C]

Well, that's scary. Maybe that's why it's unusual Or the garage 20 20 speaks of had a different mix of asphalt. I have never seen asphalt put on dirt, always compacted stone. Maybe that is important. It's a mystery. We need a asphalt expert.
Dave.

I said dirt, and that wasn't exactly correct, I should have just said "unpaved". To my way of thinking I either have blacktop, concrete or dirt. It seems that no matter how much gravel I put down, sooner or later I end up with "dirt". I think the gravel goes to China and they put it on a boat and sell it back to us.

I think his origional base was a mixture of fine gravel and sand, the same thing his origional driveway was made out of. The driveway is fine, just as hard as any blacktop street or parking lot you will find anywhere, only the covered areas in his barn are soft.

 

[dave1949]

I said dirt, and that wasn't exactly correct, I should have just said "unpaved". To my way of thinking I either have blacktop, concrete or dirt. It seems that no matter how much gravel I put down, sooner or later I end up with "dirt". I think the gravel goes to China and they put it on a boat and sell it back to us.

I think his origional base was a mixture of fine gravel and sand, the same thing his origional driveway was made out of. The driveway is fine, just as hard as any blacktop street or parking lot you will find anywhere, only the covered areas in his barn are soft.

Yes, the gravel does somehow go away. I might push off a half a yard in one winter of snow clearing, the other three truckloads must be in China Gets better every year though.

Do you think the original barn floor could have had a lot of built up diesel and oil in it over the years? That would soften asphalt. Or, like you say, it needs sunshine to 'cure' it.
Dave.

 

[Steve C]

Yes, the gravel does somehow go away. I might push off a half a yard in one winter of snow clearing, the other three truckloads must be in China Gets better every year though.

Do you think the original barn floor could have had a lot of built up diesel and oil in it over the years? That would soften asphalt. Or, like you say, it needs sunshine to 'cure' it.
Dave.

I think somebody told Karl that it was the lack of sunshine that prevents it from curing. The barn had been used for storage and didn't have any heavy equipment in it that could have saturated the soil.

 

[dave1949]

I think somebody told Karl that it was the lack of sunshine that prevents it from curing. The barn had been used for storage and didn't have any heavy equipment in it that could have saturated the soil.

I wonder if it's possible the garage 20 20 talked of was built over what used to be an asphalt driveway/parking area?
Dave.

 

[Steve C]

I wonder if it's possible the garage 20 20 talked of was built over what used to be an asphalt driveway/parking area?
Dave.

I would think it would work well if that was it.

I have often wondered about using blacktop inside a building. Being that I try to not spend any more money than I have to for things that don't provide me with much entertainment, such as driveways and floors, blacktop would be the best choice for most of my barn needs if it would work, freeing up the resources to purchase tractors, motorcycles and othe "fun" stuff.

 

[dave1949]

I have often wondered about using blacktop inside a building. Being that I try to not spend any more money than I have to for things that don't provide me with much entertainment, such as driveways and floors, blacktop would be the best choice for most of my barn needs if it would work, freeing up the resources to purchase tractors, motorcycles and othe "fun" stuff.

Sounds like a plan to me.

 

[keegs]

It's horizontal, it's a threshold, it should be above your finished driveway height by 1" to keep rain out but not too high to drive over. The seal on the bottom of the overhead door will close down on it.

The compacted stone beneath it is to keep it from sagging when you drive over it, the rebar pins are to keep it from being pushed in or out when you drive over it.

It will be cut to fit between the vertical posts/poles on each side of the overhead door opening. It gets lag bolted to pressure treated 2"x10" boards that run around the circumference of the building at/in ground level, inside and out. All the wood will be surrounded by stone, it will drain and not rot.

If you don't use an inside 2x10, I would worry that while you are compacting the stone, you will be bowing the walls out between posts. Maybe I am a worry wort

It's a bit different but I believe it will work and be inexpensive. I used the same technique when I built some terrace-style exterior steps. The steps were concrete pavers, I boxed them in with 4"x4' treated posts. Everything was above the frost line and it stayed in place and stable. For extra caution against frost heave, you could lay 2" foam foundation board under it, like a shallow frost protected foundation.

Maybe pole building suppliers have a metal pre-made overhead door threshold that really seals and stays put?

Hope this helps.
Dave.

Thanks for all this info Dave.

We still have a bit more to do on the inside of the cottage. Maybe year after next I'll have some photos to post of the new outbuilding.