POLL: Should Teachers Be Armed with Guns?

[Bob_Skurka]

Since reading the rest of the thread, I do have a couple of other thoughts. I think those of you arguing for 2nd amendment rights have been listening to the NRA too long and not studying history. The 2nd amendment reads "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

While the NRA emphasizes only the last 14 words, the U.S. Supreme Court and appeals courts have focused on "well-regulated militia" and "security of a free State" to rule that Second Amendment rights are reserved to states and their militias – e.g. the National Guards.

All federal appeals courts, whether dominated by liberals or conservatives, have agreed that the Second Amendment does not confer gun rights on individuals.

Ed, you are simply wrong on this one. In fact the courts rarely deal with the right to keep and bear arms but typically come down on the side of supporting private gun ownership, especially as the cases move up the appeals process. The most recent and noteable case was just about 2 months ago.

Washington D.C. 31 year old gun ban was recently declared unconstitional, Parker v. District of Columbia, Senior Judge Laurence H Silberman was unambiguous:

"We conclude that the Second Amendment protectes an individual right to keep and bear arms."

"In determining whether teh Second Amendment's guarantee is an individual one, or some sort of collective right, the most important word is the one the drafters chose to describe the holders of the right -- 'the people.' That term is found in the First, Second, Fourth, Ninth and Tenth Amendments."

It has never been doubted that these provisions were designed to protect the interests of individuals against government intrusion, interference or usurpation."
​

Ed, for the record, prior to this post, everything that I have quoted in this thread came from the Brady Campaign to End Gun Violence (the new iteration of Handgun Control, Inc). The above quotation came from the New York Times, 3/14/2007.


But now here is the wording of the Indiana Constitiution on guns, there is nothing else written about guns anywhere in our constitution:

Section 32. The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.
​

I would suggest that if you think some of the things you think, take a look at the Federalist Papers, they have been cited by the Supreme Court over 300 times in cases and, short of our Constitution, are the most refered to work in constitutional law by the Supreme Court Justices.

Now on the other hand, the Brady Campaign, (yes there is some fun reading on that website) in its brief to support the DC gun ban, cited as relevant a royal edict issued by the King of England over the Colonists of Maryland that prohibiited the ownership of handguns by Catholics.

 

[riptides]

Can you explain why you would feel more at risk?

Simple. Don't know the people or their history. Kind of liken it to sitting around a goat grab in the desert with a bunch or armed men. Once the shooting started, was it anger or celebration? It was the latter.

Goes back to my own view of trust.

-Mike Z.

 

[riptides]

Mike, in your state, concealed carry is already common. Citizens are already allowed ot carry in public spaces. And they have been allowed to do so. The information below is from the Brady Campaign, the largest anti-gun organization in America. Now that you know that people have been walking around public spaces in your community for years do you feel less safe? You apparently didn't have your "semblance of equality" last week, yesterday or today. Nor will you have it tomorrow

I'll have to present you wih more information. I live in Northern VA. I work in Maryland and the District.

I live on a farm and own firearms. Where I work, I have armed escorts, in the public spaces, where I work, they are all gun free zones.

Some of my neighbors carry concealed, as do some of my friends. I trust them.

I don't trust the general public where I work and I feel I am on equal footing with them in the public space.

Even in parts of central VA, where CCW is legal, since it is summer time, that sense of equality, since I cannot determine if someone is carrying, is maintained. Call it a false sense, but you have to see the neighborhood.

I guess to me it boils down to education, awareness, training and getting to know people. In some public spaces I feel a sense of loss of control if some laws in some states were to change.

Picture the old western get togethers, check your guns at the dooor. Fine with me.

I'll bow out since the Brady bill and the bill of rights are coming into play....



-Mike Z.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I have armed escorts

So does Rosie O'Donnell, Senators Feinstien, Clinton and Kennedy. They also favor disarming the general populace. Seems like a very elitist attitude. "I can have guns used to protect me, but you can't."

 

[Soundguy]

Would you feel unsafe at a pawn shop / gun store where most of the people behind the counter have a gun on thier hip? How about a gun show... LOTS of armed people walking around there... I feel safer at a gun show than in a jiffy store parking lot..

Soundguy

Well, the great equalizer for me is, If the crap hits the fan, I don't worry about 9 out of 10 people whipping out their firearms. Right now, without any laws changing, in my area, we are all on sort of equal footing. I feel like I am under control.

IF laws change, and guns are permitted in the public space, I feel my personal safety is *more* at risk, because I have lost that semblance of equality.

-Mike Z.

 

[Soundguy]

I was thinkin' of a different word.. but it might not have been nice to say.. (grin)

Soundguy

Seems like a very elitist attitude.

 

[RedRocker]

I've got no problem with everybody packing, no license needed.
Equal footing for everybody.

 

[riptides]

So does Rosie O'Donnell, Senators Feinstien, Clinton and Kennedy. They also favor disarming the general populace. Seems like a very elitist attitude. "I can have guns used to protect me, but you can't."

Nope. perhaps I was not clear.

I live on a farm and own firearms. Where I work, I have armed escorts, in the public spaces, where I work, they are all gun free zones.

Two very different worlds. In the work space, and in the public spaces where I frequent. Guns, and gun free zones.

And gosh, I think the general populace is already disarmed. We are talking about arming more, are we not?

And to answer another Soundguy question, no I feel intimidated when I frequent gun shops whose owner I do not know. As a matter of fact, the last time I had to stop by a place I had never been to before, looking for ammo, I got a distinct attitude, and the weapon did not help.

-Mike Z.

 

[Chuck52]

One of those things we'll never know:

How would the frames of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights feel about concealed weapons? I'm not a weapons history buff, but I bet most of those guys were not interested in trying to conceal a flintlock pistol in their pants. I suspect their "right to keep and bear arms" meant mostly plainly visible weaponry. What does that have to do with this interminable discussion? Not a lot, but since their words keep being used to justify the right to carry weapons they could not even have imagined, it is interesting to speculate on.

MAD on the personal level doesn't appeal to me, but for those of you who like to carry concealed guns, more power to you. On this one topic, and probably only on this one topic, I agree with Thingie. If I don't feel safe some places, I tend to avoid them. I have better uses for my pocket space than to carry gun(s). Heck, with all the keys I tote around, my wallet, and my indispensible pocket knife, I already have trouble keeping my pants up.

Chuck (no doubt on several folks ignore list)

 

[MossRoad]

I've got no problem with everybody packing, no license needed.
Equal footing for everybody.

O.K. I'll jump back in here on that one...

Are you nuts, man?

I feel better now. Back out.