POLL: Should Teachers Be Armed with Guns?

[nolefan]

I am currently finishing up my 23rd year as a teacher in Miami-Dade County Public Schools, mostly high school. That being said I have way too many stories to tell concerning acts of violence at the schools I have worked at as well as other schools in the district. This topic recently came up during lunch in the Social Studies office among a few of my colleagues and overall, with the exception of myself, most did not feel comfortable with it. Just a few observations I would like to share:

- Being one of the largest urban school districts in the country we have our own police force with a full time officer assigned to each high school. That being said they cannot be everywhere and are often off campus for a variety of reasons. They are a help but give us more a false sense of security than anything.

- Training above and beyond CCW would be needed. As in any profession there are some who are not only professionally remiss but lacking in other areas. Unfortunately common sense seems to at the top of the list. There is a young teacher in our department who manages to lose either her keys, her purse or anything else of importance at least once a week but who could meet the Fla. requirements for a CCW license

I am a long time member of the NRA and have had a CCW license since Florida was one of the first states to allow them but I am a little conflicted when it comes to arming teachers. That being said I would be in favor of some kind of policy or program that allowed certain school employees to carry.It will be interesting to see if this issue goes any futher or if it dies down as time goes on.

One final note - Our schools are not only "gun-free" zones but the terms of our employment do not allow us to have firearms in our personal vehicles as long as they are on school property. This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time because in doing so they make you give up your right to defend yourself to and from work as a condition of employment. I will not comment here as to what decision I have made but was disappointed when a bill in the state legislature was defeated this session that would have forbidden employers from firing employees for exercising their 2nd Amendment freedoms by carrying weapons in their personal vehicles on private property.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

- Being one of the largest urban school districts in the country we have our own police force with a full time officer assigned to each high school.

Many schools do not have a security officer of any type. Many college campuses cover hundreds of acres and their security staff is often unamred. The college I went to had no security officer, and still has none. My school my wife teaches in does not have a security officer, however the Chief of Police for out town is actually a teacher at the school. Still, we are talking about 1 officer on a high school campus that is 30 acres, with several buildings and 1500 students.

EDIT - It should probably be pointed out that many states allow both students & professors to carry concealed on college campuses already.

It should also be pointed out that at least some states allows teachers to be armed on grade school & high school grounds.

So for those who predict that allowing teachers to carry, based on what I can find, it should be noted that no teacher has gone "postal" on his/her students or co-workers. No student has gotten a teacher's gun and shot other students or teachers.​

 

[Tom_H]

Wow! Tom, slow down. Teaching seems to really stress you out. Are you sure you should continue in this line of work? I was all in favor of letting teachers carry a firearm before, but after reading your post, I not sure I would want someone that is as stressed as you anywhere near a firearm.

I love my job. I did not say anything about feeling stressed. I described the way other people behave. The only thing I said relating to my own feelings is when I said that I had a big smile as I told the substitute administrator that I would be glad to have the union send her back into retirement. It was a shock in the early years to see what people in my profession have to deal with. Now it rolls off like water off a duck's back.

 

[LMTC]

I say for a final time....for ANY and ALL of the objections anyone has raised....from teachers being stressed, or not competent enough, or too much or too little of anything to handle the responsibility of carrying a firearm...EVERY one of those same issues applies to allowing them the incredible formative influence they have over all those little heads full of mush.

So---if you truly think any of the things you hold up as barriers to arming teachers really exists in any quantity, then you need to be out there lobbying for drastic change to prevent these same less-than-responsible (as you define them) people from training and molding our children.

Years ago a co-worker was shot & killed by an angry former client. We had 8 total security guards on 6 floors, and one (the "chief") was armed. The armed guard hid. An unarmed co-worker (ex-Marine) took the perp down with a chair (after 6 or 7 shots), and others helped subdue him. In a follow up meeting I (and others) said we needed to arm ALL the security. The Director responded with "would you want THOSE people armed?" And I responded that if he had that little confidence in them they should not be security guards to start with. I think exactly the same of the arguments presented regarding teachers.

 

[DCS]

I love my job. I did not say anything about feeling stressed. I described the way other people behave. The only thing I said relating to my own feelings is when I said that I had a big smile as I told the substitute administrator that I would be glad to have the union send her back into retirement. It was a shock in the early years to see what people in my profession have to deal with. Now it rolls off like water off a duck's back.

OK, TOM_H I owe you an apology. I will admit that I have never walked in your shoes.

Just to set the record straight. I do have a Conceiled Carry Permit and have had one ever since Texas has allowed it. I think the police do a great job, but let's face it they cannot be you personal body guard.

 

[Tom_H]

I will admit that I have never walked in your shoes.

I think the police do a great job, but let's face it they cannot be you personal body guard.

And I don't think the government has a responsibility to stand guard over me personally every minute of the day. I could be killed any day by a drunk or reckless driver. I could do more to protect myself when in the car, say...wear a football uniform and a motorcycle helmet when in the car, maybe modify the vehicle NASCAR style with rollbars and climb in through the window. I think there are prudent and sensible limits to all things. At this point I settle for the seatbelts, air bags, vehicle stability control, and a chassis designed to crumple as it absorbs inertia from impact.

At school, we do take certain protection measures. On a regular basis, we practice fire, earthquake, and armed intruder lockdown drills. Again, the most vocal group who would oppose armed teachers would be parents. The majority where I live would believe that little Johnnie or Susie would be terrified of the armed teacher if the child is in trouble and having to have one of those heart-to-heart talks with the teacher about behavior.

So---if you truly think any of the things you hold up as barriers to arming teachers really exists in any quantity, then you need to be out there lobbying for drastic change to prevent these same less-than-responsible (as you define them) people from training and molding our children.

"would you want THOSE people armed?" And I responded that if he had that little confidence in them they should not be security guards to start with. I think exactly the same of the arguments presented regarding teachers.

So if a teacher doesn't meet your qualifications to be an armed guard, then (s)he is therefore disqualified to be a teacher? Not to be rude or confrontational, but I point out the following as facts of point, not as opinion.

My 4 years of college and 6 years of grad school, my credentials indicating that I am certified to teach multiple subjects to elementary students, and biology, chemistry, and physics to high school students, my certification under NCLB as "highly qualified", my personal job evaluations by administrators indicating that my performance is outstanding, and my high standardized test scores, all give me the standing that the law and society say I need to be qualified.

You, on the other hand, do not hold any credential to be a teacher, nor an educational supervisory administrator. Neither do you hold any such paid position of employment.

Now in all seriousness, any time you would like to make a trip to California and sit down with me and my principal or superintendent, and explain to that person your rationale for why I should be dismissed from my job, I would be absolutely thrilled to sit and listen to you. In fact, I can't think of anything that could fill me with more riotous laughter.

 

[texasjohn]

This is a no brainer for me.... a properly trained, certified, teacher willing and able to get a Concealed Carry permit, male or female, should be allowed to do so and carry in class.

The reality is that society, when dealing with extremely large numbers, as teachers do, will always unfortunately have a small violent few. Ignore the reasons, they don't matter, violence occurs.

Given the concentrations of people and transportation abilities of modern society coupled with the freedoms of a free society, these few will always be able to wreck havoc before the uniformed guardians of society (police, etc.) can arrive. In this situation, self protection and societal protection responsibilities default to each of us ... to succeed or fail to avoid/prevent the havoc as circumstances permit. Unarmed, one must either run or take the assault if that isn't possible. If armed, another option exists, you can still run, take it, or fight back with more than textbooks and pencils.

I am for preserving all the options possible... there is no fool proof solution, so forget that. Only the possibility of narrowing the range of the havoc.

 

[LMTC]

So if a teacher doesn't meet your qualifications to be an armed guard, then (s)he is therefore disqualified to be a teacher? Not to be rude or confrontational, but I point out the following as facts of point, not as opinion.

My 4 years of college and 6 years of grad school, my credentials indicating that I am certified to teach multiple subjects to elementary students, and biology, chemistry, and physics to high school students, my certification under NCLB as "highly qualified", my personal job evaluations by administrators indicating that my performance is outstanding, and my high standardized test scores, all give me the standing that the law and society say I need to be qualified.

You, on the other hand, do not hold any credential to be a teacher, nor an educational supervisory administrator. Neither do you hold any such paid position of employment.

Now in all seriousness, any time you would like to make a trip to California and sit down with me and my principal or superintendent, and explain to that person your rationale for why I should be dismissed from my job, I would be absolutely thrilled to sit and listen to you. In fact, I can't think of anything that could fill me with more riotous laughter.

Lighten up. For starters, what I said was addressing those who posted that teachers are in some way not competent to carry a firearm. My point is that we already entrust teachers with a far greater ability to do good or damage in society by giving them the opportunity to shape little heads full of mush. And yes, your degrees don't mean squat to me. I have no way to know if you are a competent teacher or not, so I wouldn't pretend to make that assessment. But degrees do not a teacher make.

You do seem to be pretty presumptuous--that's probably not a great quality for a teacher. You say you "point out the following as facts of point, not as opinion", then go on to tell me "You, on the other hand, do not hold any credential to be a teacher, nor an educational supervisory administrator. Neither do you hold any such paid position of employment." How do you know what credentials I do or don't hold? Do you have some documentation?

Funny you would say you don't mean to be rude or confrontational, but then go on to pointedly address me and tell me I don't hold credentials, etc. Actually, that is fairly confrontational. Last paragraph is a bit sarcastic as well...I find it hard to imagine you would be seriously thrilled to listen to reasons why you should be dismissed from your job.

So all in all, my post was not directed specifically at you but rather at those who did not, IMO, understand that even now teachers are given profound the opportunity to shape lives for better or worse. Seems your post was pretty clearly directed at me.

 

[Jstpssng]

Tom, it sounds like your daughter lucked out the second time around. I have a lot of respect for anyone who will give strays a home, be it human or animal.


As for carrying in schools, there is a big difference between being allowed to carry, and being required to, as some here seem to want.

 

[LMTC]

Oh yeah, nice job on piecing together parts of my post with some signficant parts left out of the middle. Sounds like a real non-sequitur when read as you "quote" me. If you want to use parts only, at least make them separate rather than using them in one quote block with no indication there is anything missing. As it stands it seems really disingenuous.