POLL: Should Teachers Be Armed with Guns?

[RoyJackson]

"So if a teacher doesn't meet your qualifications to be an armed guard, then (s)he is therefore disqualified to be a teacher? Not to be rude or confrontational, but I point out the following as facts of point, not as opinion.
"

Tom, you keep missing the point. The teachers who would be armed would be the ones willing and able to take on the added responsibility.

It's not much use tossing up your credentials since that doesn't really have any bearing on this subject.

So, let me ask a question. A person with a weapon comes into your school to wreak havoc.
What would you do?

Remember that one professor at VA Tech gave his life for his students...but if he had been armed, he could still be alive.

 

[Tom_H]

Tom, it sounds like your daughter lucked out the second time around.

That is a very kind thing to say. Thank you.

 

[hudlow]

I'd vote YES.

I believe SOME teachers or staff should be armed at every school.

hud

 

[Tom_H]

Tom, you keep missing the point. The teachers who would be armed would be the ones willing and able to take on the added responsibility.

That was not the initial question. The initial question was written in passive voice with the word "armed" written as not as an adjective, but as a verb. Nothing was said about choice in the initial question, and many others here have interpreted that same way.

It's not much use tossing up your credentials since that doesn't really have any bearing on this subject.

The individual to whom I cited credentials made the ludicrous statement that those not suited to carry guns in schools should not be shaping young minds, that there should even be a campaign to root out those whom he believes are unqualified. My point is that that his absurd opinion is moot, as I have all the qualification I need to be in my job, and he has absolutely no qualification whatsoever to decide who belongs in a classroom and who doesn't.

So, let me ask a question. A person with a weapon comes into your school to wreak havoc. What would you do?

I would do exactly what I have been instructed to do. We practice intruder/lockdown drills on a regular basis. When a code is called, all doors are locked, blinds closed, lights turned off, and students move to duck and cover in the corner of the room that law enforcement officials have already designated as the safest corner of each room. There is a special box of data and books of proceedures that are to be followed depending on the type emergency, as well as a secure room in the center of the office that is designated to become the command and control center in any emergency. Now whether you or anyone else here agrees or disagrees with this proceedure is irrevelant. In the military, infantry and marines are expected to obey rules of engagement. Rules differ from situation to situation in combat and soldiers/marines are expected to follow the orders given to them regarding which set of rules to follow. There are times when they are told not to return fire if fired upon. They are expected not to go Lone Rangering and not to disobey orders, unless the order given is illegal. This is what I have been instructed to do. It is what we have practiced many times, and this is a case where I obey instructions. Now if all this doesn't suit you, PM me and I will be happy to give you the phone number for our school district police department who is in charge of all this and you can certianly call them and/or make an appointment to go see the commander, Captain Tom Jenkins, and tell him how misguided he is.

 

[LMTC]

The individual to whom I cited credentials made the ludicrous statement that those not suited to carry guns in schools should not be shaping young minds, that there should even be a campaign to root out those whom he believes are unqualified. My point is that that his absurd opinion is moot, as I have all the qualification I need to be in my job, and he has absolutely no qualification whatsoever to decide who belongs in a classroom and who doesn't.

Didn't say that, nope, didn't type it, didn't even think it. Wow, now it's become scary that you are a teacher. You have assigned all kinds of meaning to to a very short and direct series of statements. Again, you have no idea what my qualifications are. You really are arrogant--being a parent and taxpayer comprises "absolutely no qualification whatsoever to decide who belongs in a classroom and who doesn't"? I'm done, can't educate an educator.

 

[DocHeb]

Tom might be a bit more stressed out than I initially thought.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

The initial question was written in passive voice with the word "armed" written as not as an adjective, but as a verb. Nothing was said about choice in the initial question, and many others here have interpreted that same way.

Tom, you are correct, the initial question was worded as you describe. I worded it that way simply because the TV station asked it exactly that way and I didn't want to misquote them. I provided a link to their poll in my first post and explained how/why I voted the way I did.

However, you will notice that by Post #5 when the discussion was actually starting to get serious, I clearly stated that the poor phrasing of the question was the fault of the media when I wrote:

I think they actually asked the question to simplistically. The way they asked it, it almost implies that the school system should provide the arms to the teachers.
​

Tom, I'm not really trying to argue with you, but what I do not see is very much to support your assertation that the teachers would not have a choice. In fact it seems that most people simply argue that IF a teacher is somehow qualified, THEN the teacher should be given a choice.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Rules differ from situation to situation in combat and soldiers/marines are expected to follow the orders given to them regarding which set of rules to follow. There are times when they are told not to return fire if fired upon. They are expected not to go Lone Rangering. . .

Interesting, but I was just speaking this past week to a Cpl in one of the western suburban Chicago police departments, he is also some sort of Homeland Security coordinator for his department and the county, goes to New Mexico for training annually under some sort of Homeland Security premise, and he told me that it is now becoming the standard procedure that police, in a hostage situation, especially at a school, are expected to engage immediately and are not to wait for back-up, SWAT, etc. Perhaps that is just the case in Illinios, or maybe just in DuPage county. I honestly don't know. But officers in his department are being encouraged to carry assault weapons instead of shotguns, and are now allowed to carry/supply their own rifles.

BTW, my wife is under similar lock down instructions at her high school. However, many of the classrooms have an entry/exit to the main hallway as well as an entry/exit to a back teachers hallway where they can also make an escape.

 

[Soundguy]

Wow.. what a myopic view..

1, I've carried concealed legally for 14 years... no ones ever 'taken' my gun from me.. probably very few knew I was carrying.

2, nothing to prevent a teacher from bringing a gun to school and killing anyone whether or not teachers were armed... Only difference is if other teachers were armed.. then one of them might stop the teacher that flippe dout..

3, what if they do adpat? 2 choices: atacker entering an area where they know they may encounter armed resistance vs an atacker who enters an area where they know they will likely not encounter armed resistance.

If yuo were the atacker.. which area would you go for? the 'safe' gun free zone.. or the one where you might get poped while yelling and brandishing your weapon in prep to kill somebody ??

For the purpose of the poll.. I would vote yes... Guns in the hands of licensed and trained individuals don't bother me in the least... it's the guns in the hands of the criminals that bother me. In other words.. i feel safer standing in a crowded room at a gun show where there are tens of hundreds of people walking around with guns.. vs stepping into a jiffy store at night with one or two loiterers / vagrants standing around watching the place...

Soundguy

This country amazes me. Has anyone considered the downside of introducing guns? Nah, we just wanna make sure there is a slight chance that some brave teacher will stop another Columbine/VTech. Who bothers to consider the far greater likelihood that 1) a student will get the gun and use it, 2) the teacher will be the one who flips out and uses it against the students or other teachers, 3) the bad guys won't adapt their strategy.

I am not one who follows these gun debates but isn't there already pretty good evidence that having a gun in your house is actually correlated with a higher rather than lower likelihood of being killed by a gun? Now we want to inflict that bizarre behavior on our schools too?

I don't own a gun but I have nothing at all against guns used for hunting, practice etc. I think for personal protection in a rural environment they make sense too. Crowding people and guns together however tends to lead to tradgic results too often so I certainly don't like the idea of guns in schools.

 

[RoyJackson]

Tom_H, you're not going to change anyone's mind on this subject... I do think quite a few teachers would accept the responsibility...but I've already stated that.

We all know that the current methods for protecting students is an utter failure. The most ironic thing about the VA Tech tragedy was the administrator who stated students and faculty would feel safer when the bill to allow carry on campus was shot down (no pun intended) by the VA legislature.

Wow...way back on page 3 of this thread I said it was going to get hot n' heavy.

I should PM Thingy so he can join in before the moderators shut this one down...(just joking, thingy!!!)