Hello , I'm in need of help with a pond in southern Utah. The soil is pretty good, I need it to retain water. the pond is 35 ft wide by 55 ft long. I am going to use this pond to train dogs on (retrievers). Any suggestions. Thanks.
pond liners?
- Thread starter Grouseman
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roadhunter
Elite Member
I was in charge of an interesting pond liner job a couple of years ago at the state park near my house. We removed 12,000 yards of material and then came back in with 3,000 yards of clay material from nearby and formed a 12" thick clay liner. I was skeptical of how it would work but so far it has held up well. You could easily do something similar with a tractor.
Big Equipment, Big Projects at Chadron State Park - NEBRASKALand Magazine
I do not have any experience with the rubber type of liners that may work for your application but that may end up being easier for a smaller pond like this.
Big Equipment, Big Projects at Chadron State Park - NEBRASKALand Magazine
I do not have any experience with the rubber type of liners that may work for your application but that may end up being easier for a smaller pond like this.
oosik
Epic Contributor
My experience with "pond liners" is related to sewage lagoons. Yes - YUCK. I've seen lagoon after lagoon fail and drain into the ground because the butyl rubber liner was perforated, for one reason or the other.
The most recent ones have been lined with clay/silt and have held up well. Clay/silt is somewhat a self-sealing material and while the level of the pond may drop somewhat if damaged - it will self seal and return to a normal water level. Rubber/plastic liners never seem to be able to do that.
The most recent ones have been lined with clay/silt and have held up well. Clay/silt is somewhat a self-sealing material and while the level of the pond may drop somewhat if damaged - it will self seal and return to a normal water level. Rubber/plastic liners never seem to be able to do that.
dadster4
Gold Member
Try this site for some info...the more I researched putting in a pond...the less I wanted one...but it would still be nice to have one!
Pond & Lake Construction FAQs: designing a pond to building & managing a lake to seal a pond or lake
Pond & Lake Construction FAQs: designing a pond to building & managing a lake to seal a pond or lake
NubsNob
New member
I dug a pond your size in 2005 and utilized a liner from BTL Liners. btlliners.com Heavy duty pro type liner utilized by just about everyone. Very informative web site. Price is great for the product they produce.
Ghost River Retrievers
Bronze Member
Hello , I'm in need of help with a pond in southern Utah. The soil is pretty good, I need it to retain water. the pond is 35 ft wide by 55 ft long. I am going to use this pond to train dogs on (retrievers). Any suggestions. Thanks.
Grouseman,
It sounds like you intend to build a swim-by pond ... I'm jealous!
I have a 6 acre pond that didn't hold water when originally built, so bentonite was mixed into the soil to seal it. Although it was built around 20 years ago (before I owned the property), it's still holding water just fine.
Earlier this year, a friend had a pond built and, despite all initial indications that it would hold water, it didn't ... so the pond was drained, bentonite was added to the soil, and now all is well.
For your purposes, I'm not sure that a rubbery liner would work because the dogs' claws may work through that liner.
GRR
nybirdman
Super Member
I would try the sodium bennonite before a liner.A friend just had a 1/2 acre pond cleaned out and we added the bennonite and it is filling well so far with just rain/snow.A lot less expensive and should be more durable than a liner.
roadhunter
Elite Member
Having a dump truck load of clay delivered will be a whole lot cheaper that buying bags of bentonite for the whole pond. I don't know what you have available but the local dirt/sand/gravel guys should be able to help with some clay material. Apply in layers as you pack with tractor or other device like plate compactor or even a 4 wheeler.
Redneck in training
Elite Member
We have 0.7 ac pond built 2004. While building it the builder dug himself in the sand. The pond doesn't hold water even after 14 tons of bentonite covered by about a foot of clay. After that I bought special polymer sealer from Seepage control Seepage Control, Inc. -- specializing in construction of liners for sealing lakes and ponds. It improved water loss significantly but the pond still drops about 0.5" a day. I got brentonite from some place in Wyoming. The bentonite was relatively cheap but transportation was major expense. Google bentonite quarry Wyoming for list of producers.
nybirdman
Super Member
We purchased 50# bags of sodium benonite from a local well driller @ $15.00 per.Also called well drillers clay.
Redneck in training
Elite Member
Using a membrane seals the pond but it also stops "mineral exchange" in other words you have to treat it more like a swimming pool.
There are one things I learned too late to have good pond: Bulldozers don't compact soil. I think if the original builder who covered the sand with clay compacted it with sheep foot roller I bet it would seal better.
There are one things I learned too late to have good pond: Bulldozers don't compact soil. I think if the original builder who covered the sand with clay compacted it with sheep foot roller I bet it would seal better.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Since this is just for training dogs, is it safe to assume that they will only be getting in and out of the water from the end with the shallow slope?
Will you be filling it with a hose?
I think that going with bentonite would be a huge waste of money, time and effort. It has to be mixed into the soil and compacted to be effective. Even then, it's not 100 percent.
For your sized pond, find the lowest priced rubber liner out there. Look at roofing supply businesses since so many buildings use rubber liners for their roofs. The fish supply stores sell a special rubber liner designed to be fish safe. You're not raising gold fish, so that wont matter to you. Just keeping water in there is all that matters. Especially if you are having to fill it with a hose!!!
Will you be filling it with a hose?
I think that going with bentonite would be a huge waste of money, time and effort. It has to be mixed into the soil and compacted to be effective. Even then, it's not 100 percent.
For your sized pond, find the lowest priced rubber liner out there. Look at roofing supply businesses since so many buildings use rubber liners for their roofs. The fish supply stores sell a special rubber liner designed to be fish safe. You're not raising gold fish, so that wont matter to you. Just keeping water in there is all that matters. Especially if you are having to fill it with a hose!!!
Ghost River Retrievers
Bronze Member
I'm not a pond builder, but I am a retriever trainer, so that's the perspective I'm coming from.
I presume that you are building this to be a swim-by pond...if so, the banks seem a bit steep. Your dogs will be climbing out of that pond a whole bunch and you don't want them to use up all their energy simply from climbing out of the pond, especially due to the number of repetitions. Most of the training ponds around here have the banks at a 45 degree slope.
GRR
Yes it is a swim-by pond, I will be tapering down the edges. I just don't want it to wide. Right know it is 33 x 55 feet. Thank you.
Ghost River Retrievers
Bronze Member
skipperbrown
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I have a pond liner in my pond and I have dogs. The liner material is the same as used in commercial building roofing and was installed by a commercial roofing vendor. The liner is very heavy and you will need a team to place it and you will need to be wary of tracking dirt on the seams before gluing. The issue you will have to overcome is the liner becomes slick as glass once it gets a layer of leaves, silt, or anything else on it. It's find for a few months, but their is no way I can now stand on the liner without sliding into the pond. Ask me how I know that. My pond has steep sides, about 25-30 degrees maybe, and even my dogs cannot crawl out without help. If I was doing it again, I would have stair stepped the edges with at least 2 steps. I highly recommend you incorporate some type of stairs or you will need to built a ramp for the dogs to get out. My pond leaked. We tried a ton of bentonite and it still leaked. The liner has been in for at least 5 years and the only leaking comes from evaporation. Best of luck.
