Pond overbanking ideas !!!

[hr3]

Hi all.. I have a small pond that I need ideas on what I need to do to make the outflow look good and be functional. Size is 30' by 90' by 20' deep.. Things I have tried.. #1 pipe underground with a standpipe coming up into the pond just below the ponds banks.. 泥idn't work for long after 3 years of ice lifting the and pipe being pulled up and down it broke.. #2 Last year I just let it run over the bank and off into the woods.. 泥idn't work This spring it washed out the end of the pond.. Not bad but you can't get the tractor over it,, I dumped some large bolder in it for now but want to make it look good..

What I want is a spillway that can be driven over by the riding lawn mower and tractor.. I was thinking about digging a V shaped trench away from the pond.. put heavy fabric down then fill it in with small stone ???

 

[dave1949]

Hi all.. I have a small pond that I need ideas on what I need to do to make the outflow look good and be functional. Size is 30' by 90' by 20' deep.. Things I have tried.. #1 pipe underground with a standpipe coming up into the pond just below the ponds banks.. 泥idn't work for long after 3 years of ice lifting the and pipe being pulled up and down it broke.. #2 Last year I just let it run over the bank and off into the woods.. 泥idn't work This spring it washed out the end of the pond.. Not bad but you can't get the tractor over it,, I dumped some large bolder in it for now but want to make it look good..

What I want is a spillway that can be driven over by the riding lawn mower and tractor.. I was thinking about digging a V shaped trench away from the pond.. put heavy fabric down then fill it in with small stone ???

Excellent question.

I am fighting the same battle. Last year we had 3-4 inches of ice on the pond which was new, then 5" of rain overnight. The ice floated up and took out the overflow culvert. Last June we dug that out, put in a truck load of clean clay soil. Reset the culvert pipe. Kept the ice open right in front of the culvert when melting started this Spring. Yesterday it was looking good.

Today I see the pond bank is leaking pretty good about 2-3 feet below the overflow culvert - which would be about where the clay meets the original silty soil level. Now, it's only a matter of time until the bank washes out at that level. I don't have good native soil to work with, may have to get several truckloads of clay and try again?

I am guessing the big rains last weekend got you? We didn't get that rain and have had very gentle melting this Spring.

I also would like to hear any and all ideas on the subject.
Dave.

 

[radioman]

Ice is a very powerful thing. Usually with a smaller pond that is not being used for skating, couple, large floating wood logs has been placed in the pond at place I grew up at. The wood has different contraction and expansion rates then ice and always opened up the ice for air from the sun. We had 2 overflow pipe put in the dam. one at a low halfway point that runs all the time, but its smaller then inflow rate to hold back water from the stream. There were 3 same sized pipe near the time for overflow to prevent dam being washed out. The lower pipe that flows all the time allows to let level flucuate often due to amount of snow melting or rainfall making the ice crack and break up in to smaller peices.

I realize its not the same as you guys as we are using a stream to make a pond and dam to hold back water and overflow just continues with the stream. Just an idea. FYI, my father doesnt use the logs anymore for years now as its not needed. nothing has changed.

 

[20 20]

Dave1949; Sorry to hear about that too bad ya didn't live closer, I've got clay comming out my ears.

Hr3; do you any pictures, that would help? What I've seen done is to put in the overflow pipe then build a 4x4 or 6x6 treated wall around/above that, kind of like a door casing. Leave this a little lower then the rest of the area above your pipe that way when spring comes you won't get a wash out.

 

[dave1949]

Dave1949; Sorry to hear about that too bad ya didn't live closer, I've got clay comming out my ears.

Hr3; do you any pictures, that would help? What I've seen done is to put in the overflow pipe then build a 4x4 or 6x6 treated wall around/above that, kind of like a door casing. Leave this a little lower then the rest of the area above your pipe that way when spring comes you won't get a wash out.

Thanks 20_20. I went for another look this morning. With more ice and snow out of the way I can see the water is leaking out right under the culvert on the pond side and coming out about 2' below the culvert on the out-flow side of the bank.

I feel like we've tried the cheap and easy methods now I was diligent about keeping the ice away from the culvert all winter, which is not a chore I need to have. All I can figure is frost heaved the pipe just enough to let it get started as the frost is coming out of the ground now.

Since my pond is not stream or spring fed, it doesn't flow all winter. That isn't helping matters.

I need to come up with something that is 99% maintenance free and costs less than Hoover Dam. I could use a team of beavers.
Dave.

 

[sld]

On my one acre pond I went thru the same thing with the stand pipe. After it broke, I waited until the pond was low and cut it off and capped it. I can still swim down and remove the cap to drain it if I need to.

For the overflow drain, I buried two 12" pvc pipes side by side. This worked good for several years until a muskrat tunneled underneath them. I dug them up, poured concrete, and reset them. Then I put dirt on top and stuff grew pretty fast to hold the soil. This has lasted for 5 years so far.

When the inflow is high, the drain won't keep up so it spills over another area that is the low spot. I have broken concrete on the pond side and the outside but can still move the berm easily and it has never came close to washing out the buffalo grass.

 

[dave1949]

On my one acre pond I went thru the same thing with the stand pipe. After it broke, I waited until the pond was low and cut it off and capped it. I can still swim down and remove the cap to drain it if I need to.

For the overflow drain, I buried two 12" pvc pipes side by side. This worked good for several years until a muskrat tunneled underneath them. I dug them up, poured concrete, and reset them. Then I put dirt on top and stuff grew pretty fast to hold the soil. This has lasted for 5 years so far.

When the inflow is high, the drain won't keep up so it spills over another area that is the low spot. I have broken concrete on the pond side and the outside but can still move the berm easily and it has never came close to washing out the buffalo grass.

Thanks for that info. I had wondered about using concrete to bed the overflow pipe and make a 'collar' that extends out all around the pipe. I have a 15" smooth inside, corrugated outside, overflow pipe and it never runs more than half full -so far.

 

[hr3]

What about me ???

 

[20 20]

What about me ???

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I'll try to explain better then I did the last post. If your going to let the water just overflow over a low spot in a bank then get some heavy beams. If you're against treated then go with a logust or cedar, should last years. Place beam length wise with your bank on the pond side, just were you want the water level to be. Support the main beam with 2 other post going down into the pond make something like a door frame. Now where you'll be driving over it place some small wash rock on the path level with the beam. You could also place large rock on the opposite side{dry side} to help hold everything in place. When you're done you'll be looking at pond, a beam lying length wise with path{level with over flow water line} then a nice wash rock path with larger holding stones on far side.
I have done this along with others in this area and it works great. I hope I have explained it so you can understand????? or I may just have confused you more :drool:

 

[dave1949]

What about me ???

Sorry :ashamed:

 

[builder2]

Hi all.. I have a small pond that I need ideas on what I need to do to make the outflow look good and be functional. Size is 30' by 90' by 20' deep.. Things I have tried.. #1 pipe underground with a standpipe coming up into the pond just below the ponds banks.. 泥idn't work for long after 3 years of ice lifting the and pipe being pulled up and down it broke.. #2 Last year I just let it run over the bank and off into the woods.. 泥idn't work This spring it washed out the end of the pond.. Not bad but you can't get the tractor over it,, I dumped some large bolder in it for now but want to make it look good..

What I want is a spillway that can be driven over by the riding lawn mower and tractor.. I was thinking about digging a V shaped trench away from the pond.. put heavy fabric down then fill it in with small stone ???

Hi,

Our pond has been in since 94. We have a 12" corrugated metal tube for the overflow.

It extends about 2' out from the bank towards the pond.

When we installed it we poured concrete anti-seep collars on both the inlet and outlet sides. This held and did not leak until last year when I noticed water was leaking out belows our tube.

The way I fixed this leak was with Bentonite. I bought a couple of bags from my well driller (it is used as a sealer while drilling). I poured the dry granules as the water was flowing around the tube and worked as much as I could down the channel the water was leaking thru with a long rod. This stopped the leak in 10 minutes. Then I banked and packed more in all around the tube where it met the bank. I have had no leaks since.

Bentonite expands to about 10 times its size when it comes into contact with water. I had previously used it on another leak where an old field tile went thru the bank with good success.

Our overflow is about 2' under the bank and we drive/ mow all the time over it.

Hope this helps as I now that pond leaks are discouraging.

Paul

 

[Ken45101]

If you are going to do a pipe, it should have a large collar around it in the middle so as to prevent leakbye.

Another approach is to cut the overflow in a location away from the dam. Cut it in undisturbed soil and preferably for a fairly long distance. That will erode a lot more slowly, especially if you line it with rock.

Another thought would be to reduce the volume of water flowing into the pond if you can do that. Of course for many ponds, that's impossible.

Ken

 

[hr3]

Thanks Builder but I can't go with pipe,, It would have to be down 4' to keep frost from moving it and I want to keep the pond as high as I can,,,

Any other Ideas,,, ???

 

[schmism]

you have to drain the pond to do this.... but it is the best method.

- you remove the dead stagnate water from the bottom of the pond
- dont have problems with sticks/leaves/debris entering pipe
- dont have problems with ice
- dont have to look at the outlet pipe

 

[Ken45101]

Unless you have an air vent at the peak of the pipe, I think it would act as a siphon and drain the pond every time it overflowed.

Ken

 

[schmism]

the idea is the pipe is never 100% full if its designed right. as such there is no suction created.

On a new pond that type of overflow is common in my part.

 

[Ken45101]

the idea is the pipe is never 100% full if its designed right. as such there is no suction created.

I guess that makes sense if it is a large pipe (size is not shown in the diagram). But a smaller pipe or one with heavy water flowing might start acting like a siphon, I would think. I guess your "if its designed right" is very critical

 

[hr3]

Here is the pic,,, The big rocks I put in there when we were trying to haul wood out just as the snow was melting,, They wil be coming out as soon as it dries a bit more,,

 

[wvpolekat]

the idea is the pipe is never 100% full if its designed right. as such there is no suction created.

On a new pond that type of overflow is common in my part.

I don't see how it could be "designed right" unless you use an absurdly large pipe, like 24". In a heavy rain event, all it would take is a bit of surge in level to fill the elbow at the top and your entire pond gets siphoned out. Seems too risky to me. The real risk is created by the outlet being so low, it's a siphon waiting to happen.

Air vent or running the overflow at the level you want the pond are much safer options, neither of which would reduce the capacity or other functionality.

 

[20 20]

Here is the pic,,, The big rocks I put in there when we were trying to haul wood out just as the snow was melting,, They wil be coming out as soon as it dries a bit more,,

Thanks for the picture, you can easily use the design I suggested. It is cheap natural and will hold up for many moons. You could also just place a large culvert pipe at you water line, shooting straight through the bank. If you use a culvert then you'll want to screen off the ends so stuff doesn't stop it up.