Iplayfarmer
Super Member
A trifuel genny would be cool! Actually anything that runs propane works since propane can be stored for long periods of time.
Portable Generator
- Thread starter hunterridgefarm
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A trifuel genny would be cool! Actually anything that runs propane works since propane can be stored for long periods of time.
RonMar
Elite Member
Electric hot water heater is a real killer and will pull 4.5KW all by itself. 2 reefers and freezer are probably going to be just less that 1.5KW combined, but only if they are all running at once. How big is your well pump. A large inductive startup load can really put a strain on a generator. Once it is running it probably won't be much load, but startup can pull 2-3 times or more than the running/nameplate load. You need a list of wants and a consultation with a sparcktrician
Oh, and don't consult with one who deals and or sells generators and transfer switches. they will usually try and convince you that bigger is better, but they won't be paying the fuel bills...
Good Luck.
Oh, and don't consult with one who deals and or sells generators and transfer switches. they will usually try and convince you that bigger is better, but they won't be paying the fuel bills...Good Luck.
whistlepig
Elite Member
I have been thinking about buying a portable gererator to back up the wood furnace blower in the basement and maybe run the fridge if needed. I could also use one at the other farm we have since there is no power there. I received an email from TSC for this generator Champion Power Equipment 3500 W Portable Gasoline Generator - 4434023 | Tractor Supply Company and was wondering if it was a good one?
I know very little about what size generator to get or what household items it could run. :ashamed:Could someone enlighten me
At some point we plan to buy a large backup for the house but don't see it in the near future.
Thanks,
David
It depends on how often you have power outages. We had a power outage three years ago and I had wiring done and bought a generator. We haven't had a power outage since. Even at that the wiring and generator was well worth the price just for the piece of mind. We have enough generator for the basics. Pellet stove for heat, well pump for water, and can run the fridges and a few appliances. Whole house generators and the wiring for it is money well spent if one has a lot of power outages. But for us and just an occasional power outage our basic system didn't cost enough to become a white elephant. I really like my Honda generator. They have generator size recommendations on their website. Honda Power Equipment - Generators
adjusterr
Silver Member
My set up is a 2500 Kawasaki and a 4000 Coleman contractor model. I can get by with the 2500 as I have LP for cooking, a heater in the gameroom, and wood heat. My solution is a "Pigtail" plug hardwired into the panel box. When the power goes off, I throw the main switch off to prevent backfeed and turn off all individual breakers. I plug the generator in and throw individual breakers to serve necessary circuits. I run the refrigerator until it stops, same with the freezer. I use one light circuit. This set up requires monitoring for the fridge and freezer but has gotten me thru numerous outages and minumum expense. The generator is outside on the carport with the feed line entering through a portal cut in the garage wall. I have yet to need the 400 watt Coleman. This is a low budget setup but it works.
I have two similar generators except they are the enclosed quieter variety.
In the pics you linked the engine appears identical to mine, generic chinese yanmar clone.
Here is the question- can you start and stop remotely as shown without ever going out to the generator to reset that stop lever?
On mine when you turn it off that lever springs back and has to be manaully moved back into the detent to the right to restart it.
Just curious how they get around this. Or maybe they don't.
Financegal
Bronze Member
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robs660
Gold Member
Iplayfarmer said:
I hold 40 gallons on hand and then if not needed I use in car and then refresh my stock when the forecast calls for anything. 40 gallons will get me through 4 or 5 days. Never had to go more then 2 days on it and I can always get more gas if needed
dcyrilc
Super Member
I went with a small 10KW NG/LPG generator for the house. Fuel was one of the concerns I had. Being an electrician, wiring the genpanel was no concern. I went with a 100 amp auto transfer switch and a 45 amp main in the genpanel since that's what the generator has. This will let me run about half the power available on utility power. Our service main is 100 amps.
The house has gas hot water and heat. As for cooking, we have both electric and gas stoves so during an outage we just use the gas. More than enough power to live life as normal during an outage.
Something I want to mention as a side note:
All the new quiet (non-contractor) generators sold in the US have their outputs controled with a GFCI type curcuit. This means that if you have anything connected in the house which does power conditioning (such as a UPS for your computer) it will trip the breaker on the generator.
A few years back we had a storm which took out 80% of the power in the region. Some areas were out for several weeks. A friend called me that night because he couldn't get the generator he bought to run without tripping the breaker on the generator as soon as he plugged it into the genpanel in the house. It took a few hours in the dark to find and unplug the two items tripping the breaker. One was the UPS for his computer. I don't remember what the other was.
Just something to be aware of and check out before an outage.
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Financegal
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dcyrilc
Super Member
A system with a bonded neutral means that the neutral and ground are physically bonded together. This is what creates the ground fault protection in conventional circuits, including your house. Your generator may not say GFCI, but if it has a floating neutral then it has to have circuitry to measure between the two to disconnect power in the event of a ground fault (power shorted to ground). This is how GFCI circuitry works. With a GFCI circuit, a percentage (94-96% IIRC) of the output on the power must return on the neutral or it considers it a fault condition and trips the breaker. Power conditioning, such as many UPSs do, change this relationship when they condition the power which the GFCI circuits misinterprits as a ground fault causing the breaker to trip.
I suspect that to be labled as GFCI protection it must meet certian criteria which your generator may not fully meet. However, being a floating neutral, it will have to have similar circuitry to function properly and protect against ground faults.
I don't know how your transfer switch works, but if it calls for a generator which is bonded neutral, I would be causious about using one which has a floating neutral. At best, you may void the warranty. At worst, it could damage the transfer switch or simply not allow the generator to run without tripping the breaker. Hard to say without knowing the system.
Hope this makes sense and helps.
Financegal
Bronze Member
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dcyrilc: Thanks. I think I am fine. Something I'd read led me to think I may have a problem. My whole setup was installed and tested by an electric company electrician. He let it all run for about 1/2 hour and nothing tripped. He had the well pump and many of the 120 circuits working at once and it appeared to be fine.
Forgot a neighbor up the street is also an electrician and I asked him about it yesterday. He came by and started it up and allowed it to run for about 10 minutes and it was fine for him too so by now I figure if 2 master electricians think it's fine, I can't worry. I am pretty easygoing and can usually roll with the punches but I have my elderly father living here. He's at the point where taking him out of his familiar surroundings throws off his natural balance of things - and it stresses him. If we were to have another storm I can't take him out of here again - he needs to be able to remain here.
Forgot a neighbor up the street is also an electrician and I asked him about it yesterday. He came by and started it up and allowed it to run for about 10 minutes and it was fine for him too so by now I figure if 2 master electricians think it's fine, I can't worry. I am pretty easygoing and can usually roll with the punches but I have my elderly father living here. He's at the point where taking him out of his familiar surroundings throws off his natural balance of things - and it stresses him. If we were to have another storm I can't take him out of here again - he needs to be able to remain here.
dcyrilc
Super Member
Since you've run the house with it, you're good. Wasn't trying to worry you or anyone else. It's just something I've run into with my friend and an untested system. I wanted to throw it out so if someone runs into it, they might remember and find their problem easier. Even as an electrician, it took me a couple of hours of scratching my head before I found the problem. Didn't help that it was at night, in the dark, in the middle of a big storm.:laughing:
whistlepig
Elite Member
We moved here from a long way off three years ago. Knew nothing or nobody out here. Called the electricians with the fanciest adds at first. That's all they were. Just a fancy add. Then we got to know the locals. That's when I finally found a electrician that I could trust.
Financegal
Bronze Member
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Not to worry, you didn't throw a scare into me - I did that on my own (because I am high maintenance and tend to overthink things). When I first spotted the wording on the switch website, I didn't understand so sent off an email to them with my make/model generator (before the second electrician checke it). I asked if that is the type they were referring that would not interface with the switch. They answered this morning. My generator is fine.
BTW, don't things always go wrong at the absolute worst time - trying to get power back in the dark in the middle of a bad storm - sounds like here - Murphy's Law thrives and is ever present in my life!
KubotainNH
Veteran Member
That just shows it should be tested before it's really needed. One thing I'd like to add is to be careful where you put the generator. A friend of mine had his outside his garage but he left the garage door open. His whole family got carbon monoxide poisoning, none of his 3 detectors went off and they never smelled any fumes. The firemen that came started giving him the riot act assuming he didn't have any detectors but then he pointed them out. They were not the battery backed up kind but were on live plugs, he ended up sending them to First alert to have them checked. I'm going to switch my detectors over to the kind with a digital readout and battery backup.
BobRip
Elite Member
Starting up a deep well pump can take a lot of power. My 5KW will barely start my 1.25HP pump at 300 feet down. I usually use the 8KW for the well. I had a 4kw that would not start the well.
I have heard people say that their outages only last a few hours. I think that cannot be predicted. During hurricane Isabel, the average outage (as best I can figure it) was about 7 days. Gas stations were out of gasoline or they did not have power to run the pumps. Get at least qty 5, five gallon gas cans. More is better. Fill them and your cars at the first warning of an outage (snow, ice, hurricane, whatever). Put Stabil in then. Have a method to get the gas from the car to the generator. The most critical item is water. Running out of that will be the first thing you have to have. Refrigerators will not keep your food cold if you run them a "few hours" a day. You need at least 12 hours and more is better. Test your generators with a load (electric heater) per your generators recommendations. Mine says every two weeks. Keep extra oil, air filters, oil filters and spark plugs. All of these will be unavailable during an outage.
It sounds like a lot of stuff, but many people waste their money on a generator and still have no power when they don't start or moisture has gotten in the windings of the generator head and it shorts out. Running it periodically will help prevent this.
I have heard people say that their outages only last a few hours. I think that cannot be predicted. During hurricane Isabel, the average outage (as best I can figure it) was about 7 days. Gas stations were out of gasoline or they did not have power to run the pumps. Get at least qty 5, five gallon gas cans. More is better. Fill them and your cars at the first warning of an outage (snow, ice, hurricane, whatever). Put Stabil in then. Have a method to get the gas from the car to the generator. The most critical item is water. Running out of that will be the first thing you have to have. Refrigerators will not keep your food cold if you run them a "few hours" a day. You need at least 12 hours and more is better. Test your generators with a load (electric heater) per your generators recommendations. Mine says every two weeks. Keep extra oil, air filters, oil filters and spark plugs. All of these will be unavailable during an outage.
It sounds like a lot of stuff, but many people waste their money on a generator and still have no power when they don't start or moisture has gotten in the windings of the generator head and it shorts out. Running it periodically will help prevent this.
dcyrilc
Super Member
Good sound advice.:thumbsup:
I completely agree on having a bunch of fuel on hand for bad times.
Getting gas out of cars can be pretty difficult nowadays. Lots of vehicles have a real long contorted filler neck with the tank now placed in safer spots farther up under the car. Not like the old days where they were right under the trunk near the filler neck.
I'd also be leery of snaking a hose in and damaging the in tank fuel pump wiring or its pickup "sock" or the gauge apparatus. That stuff can be real expensive to repair/replace.
I keep my boat gas tank full for backup and as condensation prevention. It is also easy to get fuel out of, I have the fitting like on the outboard with a length of hose on it. Just plug it in to the hose from the tank, and squeeze the bulb to get the gas siphoning into a can or a generator.
Now for my diesel generator I have a bunch of cans or I can get more out of the tractor or pickup. On my diesel pickup I added a frame mounted pre-filter I can disconnect and drain fuel out of the tanks that way as a last resort.
BobRip
Elite Member
Some cars (I don't know all but Dodge minivans do) have a high drain line coming from the tank. On my van it was above the rear axle on one side and had a plastic cap on it. They figure that with a pump in the tank you need a way to drain the tank to replace the pump. You can start a siphon and drain the gas. Just something to look for. You can always use a pick on your ex's boy friend's tanks and catch it with a funnel
Larry Caldwell
Super Member
I have three sources of power:
A 4400/5000 watt unit that I bought from Harbor Freight in 1996 for $279. That was before the Y2K fervor. It will run 1.5 hours on 1 gallon of gasoline.
A 1000/1200 watt 2-cycle interruptor governed portable that I bought at Coastal Farm for $149 about 5 years ago. It will run 4.5 hours on a gallon of mixed gas, and is very quiet.
A 2000 watt inverter hooked to a pair of deep cycle batteries charged by a lawnmower motor and a truck alternator. It makes no noise at all when the motor isn't running.
Load managing is simple. First, I don't even get a generator out until the second day of the outage. A few wall hung oil lamps and candle sconces, a battery powered radio (DX-440), and a LED clip-on reading light for books is all I need for the first 24-48 hours. The wood stove keeps the house warm, and low head gravity feed water refills the toilet and provides drinking water.
After 48 hours, I'm tired of sponge baths, so I fire up the 4400 watt generator to heat a tank of water and run the pump for a hot shower.
The little 1000 watt generator will run the TV and a satellite dish, or a computer and DSL modem, plus a light bulb or two. It will also run a freezer or refrigerator.
The inverter provides demand power when I don't need any. I can turn on a light bulb in the middle of the night. The inverter only uses about 100 mw at idle, so leaving it on all night won't drain the batteries. When I'm charging the batteries with the motor, it will also handle both a refrigerator and freezer at the same time.
Worst case scenario, I have a FSC travel trailer with propane furnace, twin 30 lb. tanks, and twin deep cycle batteries that I keep on a float charger. The little 1000 watt generator is my camp generator, and will handle the 30 amp charger plus lights just fine.
I think people over-pay for generators, buying too much generator for the amount of fuel they store, and too much capacity. A cheap B&S engine will run fine for years if you drain all the fuel and fog the cylinders before you store it. It's not like you put hundreds of hours on an emergency generator. Running it 2 or 3 hours a day, I have put maybe 20 hours on my 4400 watt generator in the last 13 years. At that rate it will last longer than I will.
