Portable Generators

[dave1949]

I have an older (1999) Honda EB 6500 unit. It's rated output is 30 amps @ 220V. My electric water heater runs on 220V and has a 30 amp breaker. The generator will run the water heater but it's about all it wants. The engine governor starts hunting from full throttle to a bit less when the water heater is on.

We have a manual utility line disconnect interlock. The breaker for the generator in the service panel cannot be closed unless the mains disconnect 200 amp breaker is opened (off). It is easy to manually control what runs and what doesn't with the breakers or just not turning something on if it has an on/off switch.

My procedure is to open the water heater breaker before starting the generator. We don't need that unless the power has been off all day and someone wants to shower. If I need the water heater to cycle (takes 15-20 min), we don't run water which keeps the well pump off, and I can unplug the frig and freezer if I need to but haven't tripped the generator breaker yet. It's just random luck if the frig or freezer run or not at any given time.

The normal load of needed circuits: well pump, microwave, frig, freezer, lights; are a light load for the generator. We don't need power for heat and our range has propane gas burners.

I like MikePA's "stages". That's pretty much how people progress when they move toward automated reliability and convenience.

 

[grsthegreat]

There are alot of great manual transfer switches available online. Try this site. Product Brand Selection | GenInterlock.com

I get lots of units from them. All you need to add is outdoor power inlet box and wire between the two.

Totally legal way to install manual generator

 

[cqaigy2]

A couple of years ago I invested in a Kohler 20kw LP gas powered whole house standby generator. It was one of the best things I have done. It easily runs our 4-ton heat pump and other appliances. (The emergency heat strips on the heat pump are locked out when on generator power.) So far it has over 50 hours of running time and has worked flawlessly when the utility power goes off both in summer and winter. The generator automatically starts and comes on line in 10 seconds when a power outage occurs...no muss, no fuss and I don't have to worry about a power outage if I'm away from home.
View attachment 399375

Bill

That is a sweet setup! I called to see what it would cost to get natural gas to the house and after they stopped laughing, was told something around 1,000,000 US. Actually I thought that's a pretty good deal when i found out the main was about 30 miles away, on the other side of a river.

 

[Travelover]

Found this interesting piece on six dangers of backfeeding a generator. Disconnecting the main service entrance breaker doesn't protect against all of them.

http://www.qsl.net/kc5qhh/backfeeddangers.pdf

I'm a believer and have a transfer switch, but I'm having trouble understanding #5. That would appear to be a problem whether you are using a generator or not.

5. If there are any other outlets on the dryer circuit, those outlets will have 30 amp protection provided by the generator but likely only 15 or 20 amp wiring. "Honey, what's that smell?!?!"

 

[coldfingers]

Guess I'm phase one, have a honda eb3500 and a couple of heavy duty extension cords. Can run both the shop and house furnace fans, some lights, and the fridge. Does take a few minutes to get the cords set but we have done it a few times now so it goes faster each time.

 

[MikePA]

I jumped from Stage 1 to Stage 3, skipping Stage 2, when I began traveling more for work. While I could have written out instructions for my wife, the thought of her trying to get a pull start generator running, in the middle of a storm, particularly in winter, then running extension cords, particularly to the sump pump and furnace (hot air oil) was a situation I could not put her in.

Bought a Honda generator, an APC auto transfer switch, had an electrician install it. Other than the slight delay I've set in the transfer switch so it doesn't trigger the generator for power blips, the fact the generator is running is almost, almost, transparent. The TVs and internet connections are on UPSs and the transfer switch even has a little UPS connected to it to carry certain circuits through the generator delay. The peace of mind this provides, whether I'm away or we're both away is, as the MasterCard commercial used to say, priceless.

 

[Katahdin]

I have a Generac/Briggs & Stratton Wheelhouse Generator I purchased years ago at Home Depot. Its has 5500 running watts and 8500 surge watts. The large wheels make it easy for one person to maneuver it up and down stairs.

Works great, starts first pull most every time. It feeds into the main panel and I can run the following circuits:
-oil fired boiler, 120v (hot water and baseboard heat)
-well pump, 220v
-fridge
-kitchen outlets (coffee maker, microwave)
-bathroom lights
-kitchen lights

Most power outages we only run the generator intermittently. We have a woodstove that heats the home and rain barrel water to flush the toilets. Before shutting down the generator for the night I'll switch on the septic pump circuit to empty it.

I plan on purchasing a 16KW PTO generator someday, but its hard to justify the expense when the Generac works so well in a pinch.

 

[445A]

That would appear to be a problem whether you are using a generator or not.

5. If there are any other outlets on the dryer circuit, those outlets will have 30 amp protection provided by the generator but likely only 15 or 20 amp wiring. "Honey, what's that smell?!?!"
Travelover: I believe that is the worst example of house wiring I have EVER seen. You are absolutely right whether on grid or gen power. Both the 50 amp/220volt range receptacle and the 30amp/220volt dryer receptacle are on dedicated circuits. Each circuit runs only 1 receptacle. The 120volt receptacle/s will have their own 15 or 20 amp breaker, depending on wire size, 14 awg or 12 awg respectively. Transfer switch is the way to go, but if you must... #1 Shut off the MAIN on the power entry panel, not at a sub panel. This will isolate you from the grid. It will also not let you know when the grid comes back up, so you will probably run your gen longer than necessary. #2 Shut off all breakers in your panel. #3 Gen still off, plug double ended male cord into gen and range/dryer receptacle. #4 Turn gen output breaker off, start and warm up gen. #5 Turn on breakers as required and load permits. Never start or stop a gen with a load on it, as it is very hard on components and WILL cause premature failure. To shut down, reverse these steps. This is illegal, dangerous, and will probably will void your homeowners insurance. GET A TRANSFER SWITCH!!!:thumbsup: 445A

 

[dave1949]

<snip>

I plan on purchasing a 16KW PTO generator someday, but its hard to justify the expense when the Generac works so well in a pinch.

You have entered an unidentified generator "stage." First we decide we need a generator then we worry about a backup for what we never had to begin with. :laughing:

Our gen works fine but we would be in a world of large inconvenience if it died during a long outage. I've been thinking about getting a backup unit. Even if it was only large enough to run the well pump it would be a great addition.

 

[DoubleL]

My wife and I have been talking about getting a generator for emergency use .We haven't had an extended power outage in many years but it isn't predictable. We would need to run the furnace and some lights ,possibly a couple baseboard heaters .I was thinking around 7000 watts run .What do some of you have for capacities and brands .
Some help or at least some insight would be great . When it is winter here it is cold already hit -30C last week although that was sort of record setting for early Nov.
Thanks Guys for any help.

I think the OP request got off track. I purchased this Toro 7000 watt generator and it starts and runs great. It also has great reviews, consumer reports recommendation and a very good price. I purchased at Lowes.

Shop Troy-Bilt XP 7,000-Running Watts Portable Generator with Briggs & Stratton Engine at Lowes.com

 

[jenrow33]

I have a 15,000 watt pto powered generator and feed my house panel through a manual transfer switch. Pretty happy with it, but those standby outfits are awful nice...!

 

[buickanddeere]

You can have the generator wired up so it backfeeds the house. It is far more efficient than running a bunch of cords. Personally I really like Generac. I used to backfeed with a 4,000 watt, that really got a workout. Now I have a 5,500 watt that is better suited.

BACKFEED ?

 

[buickanddeere]

I don't see the big danger of back feeding a panel as long as you are diligent about turning off the main breaker. Am I missing something?

This topic has been beaten to death here on this site and others. How vital it is to protect personal and property with a proper transfer switch.The hack that switches off the main braker and back feeds a clothes dryer plug or worse yet a welder plug. They are a "special" type of person.

 

[MikePA]

It was also beaten to death in this thread.

 

[buickanddeere]

Bigger is better . Loads are not always balanced line to line. Generator ratings are somewhat optimistic. As in operating a 5000watt load with a 5000watt generator is not a good idea.
Figure amps instead of watts as most people are not familiar with the lagging power factor caused by electric motors.

 

[ksluy]

Those of us that do a lot of camping know. I can run two AC units, Fridge, Lights and TV's with a 5500 watt Gen but when you add that coffee maker or anything that makes heat it will overload you. Its all about the amps.

 

[KubotainNH]

In this aspect, bigger is better is not always true in my opinion. Proper sizing will save you money. I have what is enough to power the items connected to my 6 switch manual transfer box. That's my radiant heating system which also gives me hot water, my fridge, most of my ceiling lights, a set of plugs in my kitchen and the plug in my basement that runs my freezer and internet stuff. My 4k inverter gen can easily power all of this stuff with all motors running. It throttles up when the fridge or freezer starts but then comes right back down. I have no need for a 6k gen that is sucking fuel running full tilt because I can't afford one that big that has auto speed. With my setup I have gone days on 6 or 7 gallons of fuel in the winter. I don't run it at night. I also don't care about not having the electric stove or dryer. I can still use the microwave and the gas grill is outside if needed.

Aside from the dangerous aspects of back feeding, it's also not easy to tell when the power is back on seeing the main breaker is off. I paid less than $200 for my Gentran style transfer switch, it paid for itself in the first power outage.

My first gen setup was a 4kw Generac with idle down. It was quiet for that type of unit but any load whatsoever who make it rev up. Using my FIL's 2kw Honda EU2000 made me want one that adjusted the RPM for the load needed and oh so quiet. With the first setup I ran cords everywhere. I wired my furnace and radiant water pumps to a regular plug so I could plug the heating setup into an extension cord.

My current unit is electric start. I wouldn't expect my wife to be able to start a pull start only unit.

 

[dave1949]

Our best indicator that power has been restored is our cable modem. We leave that plugged in while on the generator. The cable system gets its power the same place we do, so when its lights start flashing, power is on.

 

[George2615]

My first generator was a portable 5000W, 6500W surge. It worked fairly well except when we lost power on hot summer days and needed some AC. The 5K would not run the house items plus an AC unit. When I thought of upgrading I was also in need of a new welder so I ended up buying a Miller Bobcat NT250 welder / generator. The generator is a 10,000W unit run by an electric (battery) start. Motor is 20HP gas. Selling my 5K genny and old AC buzzbox paid for 1/4 of the Bobcat. The 10KW has run the entire house including 2 AC's, fridge, chest freezer, well pump, furnace and any lighting.

 

[davrow]

So, can someone help explain the numbers?

We use 401 kWh per month (that's the high number, low is around 258). Looking at the usage by hour (it's absolutely amazing what the utility can show on the web these days) shows max use of 1.88 kW in any one hour (from 11:00AM to noon and just a bit less from noon to 1:00PM).

So, do I need a 2 kWh generator to power my house (most in 1 hour), or do I look at the daily usage (10~15 kWh/day) for sizing a generator?

(our usage is very low 'cause we are in a downstairs condo in town... upstairs neighbors do a great job insulating us )