Power Beyond and Loader Simultaneous Operation

[TomSeller]

I learned from another forum about my need for a new loader control valve in the near future for my tractor.

I would like to be able to use the front loader with a hydraulic post auger in order to put down pressure on the auger with the loader. I was thinking I could use the Power Beyond feature to accomplish this.

However, after learning about the control valves and PB, it would seem that the loader and the PB attached auger cannot be operated at the same time.:thumbdown:

This valve could possibly overcome that issue;
3 SPOOL 25 GPM JOYSTICK LOADER VALVE W/GRAPPLE

There is nothing definitive, that I could see when reading about this valve, that says it will.

Does anyone know of a joystick loader control valve that will allow for simultaneous operation of an attachment through the PB port? Any suggestions on setting up such a system?

I use my standard rear remote to run my FEL mounted hydraulic auger. I use down force on occasion, but more often inch down the FEL as the auger digs. Whether inching down to keep up with the auger bit on its normal dig or applying a slight amount of down pressure (also by inching the FEL down), my auger never stops.

As has been mentioned, you are not applying full fluid to the down cylinders so to keep full flow on the pump, fluid is still going out the power beyond to my remote to run the auger. System is open center.

 

[Thumbs Up Farm]

Are you using the aux remotes or power beyond? I had thought of using an aux remote, powered by the 3 point hitch pump, not the FEL pump. However, that would seem to be more of a task on my particular tractor because it has no remotes at all. Also, the info on how much pressure and flow on the 3 point pump for my tractor is scarce. It being as old as it is, there is a good chance that my 3pnt hitch pump cannot power the auger.

I would like more info about your set-up. Are you happy with your auger? What kind do you have? Is it direct drive (no gear box) or does the hydraulics power through a gear box? What kind of hyd motor does it have? Do you know what pressure and gpm your tractor is running?

I am not sure which motor I need. J_J has pointed my towards a couple. I am just learning about the torque, pressures, flow, rpms. etc. I know the motors specify a max pressure which I need to be at least as high or higher than my system is capable of to prevent damaging the motor. But, if it needs more pressure to reach the torque I need, and that exceeds my relief settings or system capability, then what? Still don't have a grasp on what is probably fundamental for some guys on here. So, I have not decided on what to go with yet.

I think some info from somebody who is already using one would be very helpful. No need to re-invent the wheel er.. auger.

 

[TomSeller]

My tractor did not have rear remotes so I added a Cross 3 spool setup and ran hoses from the power beyond of the FEL joystick to the Cross spool, then to the backhoe or 3-pt hitch if the backhoe is off. The tractor only has one 14 GPM pump, other than for steering which is separate of course. I run my Danuser direct drive auger from the same spool as my FEL mounted grapple. I think my pressure is in the 2700 psi range. I am very happy with it.

 

[Thumbs Up Farm]

Thanks TomSeller sound like you have a nice set-up. Danuser makes some nice stuff. Also sounds like using the auger and FEL at the same time is not an issue.

Been doing more calculations. I am beginning to think the info on tractordata about my tractor is incorrect. According to other calculations the PTO torque would be 417.8 ft lbs, meaning at a ratio of 3.18: 1 that my auger torque would be 1328.6 ft lbs. that is more in line with what I am seeing on other applications.

I think if I could find a motor that could put out this much torque or more at around 2000 psi 20 gpm 80 rpm and had an output shaft large enough to handle some auger down pressure I would have a winner for my direct drive auger.

 

[J_J]

I surely thought that I had posted that info in post #9.

Now, you can get larger displacement motors, but you will not like the price. They have lots more torque and the rpm would be OK.

40.6 cu in CHARLYNN 10000 SERIES MOTOR 119-1030

 

[TomSeller]

Note that I do not have a motor spool on my auger. Mine rotates at about 1 rev per second (slow as most augers are) and stops almost instantly so I don't have the run on that larger motors are concerned with. If you are designing your own, you might want to take this into consideration.

 

[Thumbs Up Farm]

Wow, yeah that would be way out of the question. I am definitely leaning towards the motor you pointed me towards. I have searched for motors with torque in the 1500-2000 ft lb range. I would need that to be about $350 to be comparable to the gearbox motor set-up. Most of the direct drive systems I looked at used a planetary gear set-up to produce the torque.

It would seem that more displacement equals more power/torque but not always? What about flow/rpm. My system is supposed to be 20 gpm but I would assume that would be at 1200 rpm? So, if my engine speed is slower does that translate to slower rpm on the hyd. motor as well? Will it maintain the torque up to the point of stalling the engine?

 

[Thumbs Up Farm]

I don't plan to use a motor spool either. I want to use the same valve and QDs for a grapple, so the motor spool is out.

 

[J_J]

Torque should be fairly constant as it is dependent on the displacement and the pressure.

Pressure is developed in the motor, and if it is good and tight, it should be there from 1 rpm to max rpm.

By changing the GPM flow, you change the speed of the auger.

 

[Thumbs Up Farm]

Any idea where to get a collar/coupling that would fit the taper on this shaft? This link shows a hub w/brake drum which I could use, but not quite as streamline as it could be for this application.

28.3 cu in WHITE RE WHEEL MOUNT HYD MOTOR