TomSeller
Super Member
My Danuser has about 2,200 ft-lbs. I have not stalled it yet. I now wonder if the bit locks up if my tractor will go around in circles instead. I'll have all the kids hanging onto my backhoe bucket like a merry go round.
Power Beyond and Loader Simultaneous Operation
- Thread starter Thumbs Up Farm
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My Danuser has about 2,200 ft-lbs. I have not stalled it yet. I now wonder if the bit locks up if my tractor will go around in circles instead. I'll have all the kids hanging onto my backhoe bucket like a merry go round.
J_J
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- Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST
Yes, you will go around in circles, and you had better hold on
What is the largest auger you have used with it.
If your bit locks up, it will just go into relief.
What is the largest auger you have used with it.
If your bit locks up, it will just go into relief.
OP
Thumbs Up Farm
Bronze Member
That Danuser head is $1445.00 just for the head. Out of my range! Good info on the chart though. They show a minimum auger RPM at 48. and max at 92 so that confirms my target of 80 rpm. The torque ratings also confirm my 1350 ft lbs calculations. Not sure I want to spin the tractor around like Tom seller, (might clear more land quicker that way though), but if I use a box and shear bolt that shouldn't happen.
So, I think with your help, and hopefully a good pressure test on my system this afternoon, I will be ready to order parts. My target for this project is $600-$700. No need for the mount. I will be mounting mine on my forklift fork. I will make all the mounting and attachments.
So, I think with your help, and hopefully a good pressure test on my system this afternoon, I will be ready to order parts. My target for this project is $600-$700. No need for the mount. I will be mounting mine on my forklift fork. I will make all the mounting and attachments.
aczlan
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Having replaced many a snapped shearpin, just set your pressure relief on the motor to be just low enough not to snap a shearpin, it will save you lots of aggravation.
Aaron Z
OP
Thumbs Up Farm
Bronze Member
OK I tested my tractor relief pressure. By curling the bucket until it bottomed, my system went up to 2100psi. So, this is what the relief is set to in the loader control valve. Now, if I add the power beyond and have a lower setting on the new control valve, attached through the power beyond port, then my system pressure relief will be set to the new valves relief setting. Correct?
So, that means I need to set the PB valve relief to 2100 psi also. Correct?
Thanks aczlan, that is good advice! But, I may be limited to keeping the relief pressure high in order to keep from loosing power on my loader. Assuming of course, that my understanding of the pressure relief is correct. If I start shearing a lot of bolts then I may increase the bolt grade at risk to my box, or lower the relief while using the auger and raise it back up when not in use if my loader is too weak.
Now that I know my pressure, target torque, and rpm for the auger I should be able to match it pretty closely with the gearbox and motor. Assuming my calculations are correct on the torque required to shear the bolt, I should be able to avoid shearing by learning the engine load/rpm, and lifting the auger when it becomes bogged down. With the auger attached to my loader, and fed through the PB port, when I lift the loader, it will reduce power to the auger at the same time the loader is lifting, which should avoid shearing the bolt. Again, that is, if I am understanding the hydraulics correctly.
The required torque to shear the bolt I am using just as a guide to help me determine the minimum power I need in a Hyd motor. Hopefully I will be able to prevent shearing, but I want it to be strong enough to do so.
So, that means I need to set the PB valve relief to 2100 psi also. Correct?
Thanks aczlan, that is good advice! But, I may be limited to keeping the relief pressure high in order to keep from loosing power on my loader. Assuming of course, that my understanding of the pressure relief is correct. If I start shearing a lot of bolts then I may increase the bolt grade at risk to my box, or lower the relief while using the auger and raise it back up when not in use if my loader is too weak.
Now that I know my pressure, target torque, and rpm for the auger I should be able to match it pretty closely with the gearbox and motor. Assuming my calculations are correct on the torque required to shear the bolt, I should be able to avoid shearing by learning the engine load/rpm, and lifting the auger when it becomes bogged down. With the auger attached to my loader, and fed through the PB port, when I lift the loader, it will reduce power to the auger at the same time the loader is lifting, which should avoid shearing the bolt. Again, that is, if I am understanding the hydraulics correctly.
The required torque to shear the bolt I am using just as a guide to help me determine the minimum power I need in a Hyd motor. Hopefully I will be able to prevent shearing, but I want it to be strong enough to do so.
aczlan
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Nope, look at it this way, pressure flows through your loader valve set at 2100PSI, on to the valve with the motor. You put a 1500PSI relief valve on the lines between the valve and the motor (this one perhaps? CROSSOVER RELIEF W/MAKEUP CHECK VALVES MANIFOLD MT )
It may see up to 2100PSI, but it will restrict the line going to the "in" port on the motor enough that it will never see more than 1500PSI.
Aaron Z
OP
Thumbs Up Farm
Bronze Member
My pump pressue is higher than 2100. The relief in the loader is 2100. If I have the valve on the PB port set to 1500psi, and I am using my loader, wouldn't the pressure inside the loader valve and PB valve reach the same 1500 psi causing the relief in the PB valve to dump back to the tank?
If the PB valve is the last in valve in the circuit wouldn't that cause the entire circuit to have the same relief pressure (1500 psi)?
If so then that would mean I would no longer have 2100 available to the loader only 1500.
If the PB valve is the last in valve in the circuit wouldn't that cause the entire circuit to have the same relief pressure (1500 psi)?
If so then that would mean I would no longer have 2100 available to the loader only 1500.
J_J
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- Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST
The relief pressure, is usually set by the first valve in the series path.
Most relief valves should be set the same.
However, if the motor is limited to say 1500 psi, then you would put a relief valve across the motor set to 1450 psi, and when the motor develops the pressure, it will relieve.
The rest of the hyd system relieves at the loader valve set pressure.
If you limit the pressure, you limit the torque.
Most relief valves should be set the same.
However, if the motor is limited to say 1500 psi, then you would put a relief valve across the motor set to 1450 psi, and when the motor develops the pressure, it will relieve.
The rest of the hyd system relieves at the loader valve set pressure.
If you limit the pressure, you limit the torque.
OP
Thumbs Up Farm
Bronze Member
So, if I set the relief in the PB connected valve to 1500 it will not effect the loader?
I will want to set the relief high as my hyd motor can stand for my auger control in order to get the most torque.
These are my two front runners for motors at this time. I like the smaller motor because it has higher rpm in case I want to use a smaller bit for drilling. I can always slow the rpm down with engine throttle for the 12" bit. Of course, the bigger motor has more torque but I may not need that much torque if I am only drilling with a 12" max bit.
They are two different "Motor Types" and the smaller one has a much smaller shaft. Your thoughts on these two?
16.4 CU IN HYD NICHOLS MOTOR 106-7-AS-0
28.3 cu in WHITE RE WHEEL MOUNT HYD MOTOR
I will want to set the relief high as my hyd motor can stand for my auger control in order to get the most torque.
These are my two front runners for motors at this time. I like the smaller motor because it has higher rpm in case I want to use a smaller bit for drilling. I can always slow the rpm down with engine throttle for the 12" bit. Of course, the bigger motor has more torque but I may not need that much torque if I am only drilling with a 12" max bit.
They are two different "Motor Types" and the smaller one has a much smaller shaft. Your thoughts on these two?
16.4 CU IN HYD NICHOLS MOTOR 106-7-AS-0
28.3 cu in WHITE RE WHEEL MOUNT HYD MOTOR