Power steering loosing power

JClark · Feb 3, 2004

Bigpete and Del,

I doubt if they have checked the tire pressure. If I blew 40 psi in the front tires it would certainly make steering easier. As it is I keep tire pressures pretty low (15 - 20 psi) so as to spread the weight out as evenly as possible on my lawn. I have noticed that the steering behaves the same on both concrete, dirt and gravel.

Getting the correct ballast is a easy as parking my fat **** on the box blade. Doing this makes the steering problem disappear, until someone with a similarly fat **** stands in the bucket. Remember, the capacity of the bucket is 781# at the lip so with three fat asses in the bucket it won't steer at all.

The tire issue is a little tougher for me. I sold the stock turfs on eBay. The oversize turfs are mounted on the stock rims and are just about the same diameter as stock R4s. The dealer has no correct size turfs but there is a used 4100 with stock R4s that I might be able to borrow. I am not sure if the dealer would let me do a temporary swap but I'll bet a buck the RM would claim that the used tires "are not within the design specifications". But you may be right, I may have to do some back flips to get them to diagnose and fix the problem.

What really irks me is the simple fact that my turfs have absolutely no cause or effect on this problem. The RM has little to no mechanical knowledge and seems to be just another bureaucrat from hell more interested in the rules than the problem. I really expected better from JD.

At this point in time I am pretty discouraged and am trying to think of a way to rid myself of this tractor. I won't sell it without disclosing the problem and no one is likey to buy it with the problem. On top of that, I still prefer this model to any of the others; orange, blue or green.

So I am going to wait until next week to hear from the RM or dealer. If I don't hear something by Tuesday I will make another call to the CCC. Thanks to all for the suggestions and encouragement.

JClark · Feb 3, 2004

Kyle,

You are correct about the 4WD. In another thread we discussed the 4WD ratio problem. With these bigger tires the rears are probably pushing the fronts in 4WD. There is an acceptable range of 4WD ratios but I don't know what it is. At some point I calculated the stock and my ratios using the tire circumferences but I don't remember them at the moment. I only use 4WD when I get stuck. If I used 4WD frequently on surfaces with good traction I expect I could cause some damage, but I don't see where it would cause this steering problem, especially considering how rarely I use 4WD.

If I keep the tractor I will probably research the 4WD ratio issue and then get front tires that will put me in that range. However, I won't return to stock size turfs as the tractor is significantly less useful with them because of the lack ground clearance with the MMM. Fully raised, the MMM banged on the ground whenever I crossed even the shallowest depression. Crossing a ditch was impossible, cutting one even more difficult.

Had I actually seen a 4110 fitted with turfs (at the correct pressue) and the MMM I would never have bought it so equiped. When I picked up the tractor the MMM was not fitted and the rear turfs had 40 psi in them. They looked like something in a cartoon. By the time I got them down to the correct pressue the MMM was practically on the ground. I guess I should have just returned it to the dealer at that point but I figured I was smart enough to fix it myself. At my age I should know better.

bigpete · Feb 3, 2004

But JClark, I gotta' ask again....

Have you checked your steering function with a set of stock tires back on it? Or...

Did the steering problem start when you put bigger tires on it? and...

Did your dealer sell you and install the bigger tires?

I, too, just learned from your recent post that you were running bigger tires. As I said, I doubt that is your problem. However, if you don't debunk the RMs diagnosis you won't get anywhere with Deere.

FWIW, I drop my belly mower on most all ground work anyway, so it doesn't matter that it's not sucked up to the floorboards. Always did it on my brother's 855, too. The clearance on the bigger tractors with belly mowers typically isn't enough for heavy work either. catch the corner of your deck on a stump or a rock once and your suspension can be trashed...even with 16 inches of clearance.

Good luck

JClark · Feb 3, 2004

Bigpete,

I changed to the bigger rear tires when I had about 10 hours on the tractor. I consulted with the dealer before doing it, specifically asking if it would affect the warranty and he assured me it would not. The steering trouble showed up at about 63 hours, after I changed the hydraulic fluid. The dealer did not supply the tires and could not mount them as they have no tire equipment. As this time there are no stock turfs available for me to try. My only option is a used 4100 with R4s and I have not asked the dealer if I could mount them on my tractor.

My MMM clearance made it a problem just to go down the lane and cut my other lot. Also I could not cross much less cut any swales or ditches with out the mower scalping baldly. The extra clearance of the bigger turfs lets me raise the MMM enought to cut my ditches and swales.

If JD insists that a turf tire with a nearly identical diameter as their stock R4 is causing this steering problem then there is a problem here bigger than my lack of steering. That kind of customer disservice will not benefit them very long. Much as liked my past JD products, I would not recommend one to anyone now. That said, you are probably correct - JD won't do squat until the tractor is configured to their exact specs. I do expect they will remember my name by the time this is over though.

bigpete · Feb 3, 2004

Well, good luck JC. I've been hoping that they would figure this out by now. Earlier in this thread and in a couple of others I have written about my GOOD experience going through the JD Customer Complaint Center. Every time I hit a road block on my problem, they were there to help get things escalated. I think you said you had a case number already. My case ended up being turned ino a trade up to a 4110 at a reasonable cost. Maybe you can get your problem resoved by telling them you have exhaused all avenues with the dealer. I still would guess they won't do anything until the tractor is back to "stock," but that beats suffering with a poor performing tractor. Does the tire dealer still have your stock tires and wheels around?

Get back on the phone and keep us posted. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

jrlichina · Feb 4, 2004

The steering trouble showed up at about 63 hours, after I changed the hydraulic fluid. 

How many hours have you put on since the fluid change? You could simply have air in the system causing the loss in steering power. What happens is an air pocket is created in the steering cylinder and when the fluid is diverted into the cylinder the air compresses and little movement is the result.
Trapped air in the steering cylinder would require you to turn the wheel lock-to-lock at least 10-15 times holding the wheel at each lock position for a few seconds to activate the relief valve. This should be enough to clear any trapped air(although it could take more). As you do it you should start to feel the power increasing each time. Sometimes you can get a stuborn air pocket that takes a while to get out. Hope this helps.

del · Feb 4, 2004

I wouldn't think the cylinder would drain out during an oil
change but I suppose it's possible.

I replaced some loader hoses on my older tractor and for some
reason the air that entered REFUSED to leave for quite a
lot cycles. Guess it felt comfortable in there!

Sometimes a solution to a problem is the easiest goofiest
thing to fix! Let's hope so. From what the gentleman has
discussed so far I don't know if the dealer has cycled it
a bunch of times to check it. Cars and trucks are like this
too if the system gets air in it, GM says to raise the front
of the truck off the ground and then cycle it left and right
multiple times letting it stay (gently) on the L and R stops
for a couple of seconds.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gifDE L/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jrlichina · Feb 4, 2004

It's not that it would drain but rather air in the system makes its way to the cylinder and then it just sits there so you're left with a compressable pocket of air(a bad thing). Now the hard part is getting it out because it is trapped in the end of the circuit(so to speak). That's why sometimes it takes quites a few cycles to get trapped out of the steering circuit. And to be honest testing the system isn't a big deal. You have the the steering valve, a priority valve, and the steering cylinder. Pressure and flow checks along the system should reveal any problems. Any service shop should at least have a pressure gauge with assorted fitings to do pressure checks. I would even say they should have a flow meter, heck I have one! My gut still thinks air in the system.

del · Feb 4, 2004

jrlichina,

I was thinking that when you drain the system you are only
draining the unpressurized tank, that the hydraulic pump
wouldn't even drain out. But thinking about it after your
post if the pickup tube gets air, then air will be in the
pump and air will end up just about anywhere in the system.

If the fluid has bubbles it can be compressed, and although
the steering would operate normally under no-load, the
added load of the bucket off the ground may make air more
of a factor.

I am barely fumbling my way around hydraulic systems, but I
would think a tractor dealer would already know all this stuff.

Of course even the pro's get caught by simple stuff. I once
looked at car that had some multi-hundred dollar "dyno-tune"
by a speed shop.

I added about 50hp?/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif in about 3 minutes. They hadn't bothered
to see that the throttle was wide open when the gas pedal
was depressed!

I never told the car owner what I did, he thinks I am a GENIUS!

Nice to have at least ONE person think that!/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gifDE L/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif