Power Steering Problem Not Solved

toddler · Jul 10, 2001

I only have the 60"mmm, and I always lower it, but my wife occasionally forgets after mowing and it's stayed up for days before I've noticed and lowered it. Even if it did leak down, that wouldn't be the issue. With the engine running, the position control shouldn't let it leak down ever. I'm beginging to dislike your dealer Alan, and I've never even met him.
Todd

Alan L. · Jul 10, 2001

The funny thing is that I too have left the cutter up with the engine off and it did not leak down. The only time I notice it is while I'm actually using it. I have not detected any leakdown with the engine killed.

I like the owner of the dealership, but the service manager gets on my nerves. He told me today he has never heard of position control on the 3 ph. I think he knew what I was talking about.

I know Kubotas at my dealership must not be giving much trouble because of all the times I have been there, the only tractors I see in the shop are 10+ year old tractors and new ones they are setting up. I don't think I have seen new ones they are actually working on (except for mine).

Alan L., TX

ronjhall · Jul 11, 2001

Does it always show up while using a rear-mounted implement (pto run or not)? 
I'm not sure. The last time I did a lot of work with a rear mounted implement was last summer. When the problem first showed up. I was using 5' disk and 7' rake.
210 is HOT!
 Kubota Rep. says 210 degrees is not to hot.
Do you run your belly mount all the way down (3 point at lowest position)?
I set control between 4 & 5 for MMM.

hayden · Jul 11, 2001

Let me try to summarize where I think this is leading, 'cause I think we may be off in differnet directions.

The new "3PH theory" runs something like this:

- The 3PH has a leakdown problem

- When operating with a heavy implement, the position control is constantly compensating for the leakdown by pushing the implement back up. This is what the position control is supposed to do, except it's hyperactive due to the unusually leakdown.

- The hyperactive position control heats the oil more than "normal"

- Hot oil causes PS spazm.

Did I get this right? If so, here are a few observations.

- It still all comes back to hot oil causing the PS to spaz. Is 210 deg really too hot? The question here is whether the PS is still intollerant of hot, but in-range oil temps. How the oil gets hot is irrelevant provided it's still within acceptable range.

- I could see the hyperactive position control possibly interfering with steering in another way. Could 3PH movement (cause by the position control) starve the PS pump? Maybe the intake to the two pumps is inadequate, either by design or because there is a crimped line or other restriction. Could backpressure/workload on the 3PH hydraulic circuit interfere with the PS circuit? An interesting test would be to play with the PS while a heavy implement is actively being raised from ground level to full height. While raising the implement the 3PH is fully active for a second or two. If 3PH activity interferes, this should stimulate the problem. The more I think about this as I write, I think it's unlikely that there is a direct interference between 3PH lifting and PS or more people would see it.

Anonymous Poster · Jul 11, 2001

Did I pick up somewhere that people who have switched to synthetic oil do not have this problem? Also, it seems like I picked up to somewhere that the position control may be set a little too sensitive from the factory. What I wonder is if the position control is continuously making adjustments to keep the implement within say a window of 1/2 inch instead of say one inch which would tax the hydraulics less. I wonder if the problem stems from cavitation. Synthetic oil would be less likely to cavitate.

The next time you're steering acts up I would lower my implement as far down as I could and then raise it as high as I could and then immediately shut down the tractor. Then bounce on the implement to see if there is any air trapped in the lift cylinder due to cavitation. Be careful here, do not get yourself squished. Also do this test when the tractor is operating normally so you have a reference for how springy the lift cylinder is under normal circumstances.

Please note that at this time I would go to the dealer and pick out the next largest size tractor and matter of factly tell them that the one you just picked out is the one that you want delivered back to your home. Then, just walk out in a snit before they can say anything. Maybe you will get lucky, you sure deserve it at this point.

GlueGuy · Jul 11, 2001

I presume you're talking about leakdown of the 3PH with position control while the engine is running?

When the engine is shut off, I would expect a "little" leakdown over a period of time. I did a leakdown test of my FEL and 3PH last night. The 3PH had Woods boxblade attached. I leveled the FEL at 36" off the floor, and pulled the 3PH as high as it would go; measured 23" at the rear blade to the floor.

This morning, the FEL is at 31" (leaked down 5"). I'd say that's probably "normal".

The 3PH was at 5" (leaked down 18"). This is probably "normal" too.

The GlueGuy

Bird · Jul 11, 2001

kubotadriver, I only detected the power steering problem twice with my B2710 (now with 302 hours on it) early in its first summer. And I did change to synthetic (Amsoil) at 218 hours, but cannot say whether or not that helped.

Bird

Alan L. · Jul 11, 2001

The Amsoil will be my last resort. I really want to get this problem verified by the dealer first, because I don't know whether the Amsoil will help or not and the summer might run out on me before we get it solved.

Its supposed to be about 100 today but I'm sitting here at my desk. This weekend its supposed to be cooler (96 for a high) so thats not really hot enough for complete steering failure that I can get them to witness. Where is that 100 degree weekend weather when you need it?

Alan L., TX

ronjhall · Jul 11, 2001

Alan
 Kubota Rep. is a no show this week to look at my power steering problem./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif He's in the hospital on sick leave. Hope this power steering stuff hasn't had anything to do with it. Hope he gets better soon and another Rep. is available.

If it takes Amsoil to fix the problem then Kubota better plan on giving me a life time supply./w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

I like kubotadriver's idea of selecting a new tractor as I'm leaving the dealer. I'll have to select another 2910 because a bigger tractor just would not fit in my place. If it had a Back Hoe, that could be an incentive to let them have the old tractor back./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

I don't think my problems are dealer related. Just a need for Kubota to admit they have a problem and repair it./w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

Anonymous Poster · Jul 13, 2001

I am experiencing the same problem. I have answered kubmech's "questionaire" to the best of my ability below.

FEL installed, try mowing with FEL removed, see if there's a difference.
It does not make a difference. Tried with and w/o FEL. Even with and w/o mower. Still have problem.

What tires are you running.
R4's

When the steering acts up (when loader installed) lift the front end off the ground and see
if steering changes.
Will try this next time FEL is on.

When acting up, slowly turn steering wheel one way, then the other. Any difference? any
noise or buzzing?
Does buzz a little, but only when turning right.

If possible, check ps pump temp, and trans fluid temp.
Not possible.

Pull the trans dipstick note if there's any oil foaming.
No foaming.

Is your 3PH in the fully raised position?
Does not appear to make a difference. Happens when I am mowing (mmm) with the 3PH fully dropped, or just riding around and 3PH fully up AND no load on the PTO (nothing is running except the tractor)

Has anyone had the problem while not mowing and/or with mower removed? Belly or rear
mount.

I have a belly mower. I have had problem show up while using implements that do not require PTO.

In 4x4 or 2x4? any difference.
It does not make a difference.

Other items that may be helpful. 2000 2710. I am in Fuquay-Varina, NC. It gets hot, but not as hot as Texas. I noticed the problem AFTER my 50 hour service (winter 2000) and when the weather started getting warm. Checked all fluid levels, etc. All ok. The problem first presented itself by appearing to "stutter" when turning right. I have not had my power steering go out completely, but it is starting to "stutter" whether going right or left now. This problem is more apparent in high gear then any other gear. The problem is more apparent AFTER the tractor gets warm (temp gauge about 1/3 or so up) I keep 8 acres+ mowed with the mmm. Any suggestions??

greg