Power Wall Pricing

/ Power Wall Pricing #1  

Diggin It

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I've seen these things mentioned now a few times, but I haven't seen any pricing or costs. The crazy Mars guy's company offers one and Generac has something. Might even be the same, rebranded.

But none of the sites I've seen have prices. They all want in home quotes I don't want to get into that if it's going to be 10 grand. A search just now shows third party sites claiming up to 15 grand including installation. That ain't a'gonna happen.


No room for solar panels here realistically and the calculators don't show them to be practical. Wind is intermittent with many still days, so turbines aren't practical either.

If anything, I'd want a power wall type system to charge off the grid and or off the generator so that I could cycle the generator on/off over so many hours to ration fuel.

So, if you have them, or have priced them, share the numbers!!
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #2  
Tesla lists the Powerwall at a cost of $7,000 alone, and puts supporting hardware costs at $1,000, bringing the price of just the Powerwall and its associated components to $8,000 before installation.
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #3  
Tesla provides calculator on line. Do like I do, poke in neighbor address so he gets de junk mail.
https://www.tesla.com/powerwall/design

Nice idea, probly Lithium battery, looks little higher price den Onan + fuel + battery ferto start.

Reminds me I gotta get to installin my solar panels I bought from de Science teacher who got new siding put on his house & couldn't get SunFurnaces back on. Think I wait fer summer.
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #4  
I've seen these things mentioned now a few times, but I haven't seen any pricing or costs. The crazy Mars guy's company offers one and Generac has something. Might even be the same, rebranded.

But none of the sites I've seen have prices. They all want in home quotes I don't want to get into that if it's going to be 10 grand. A search just now shows third party sites claiming up to 15 grand including installation. That ain't a'gonna happen.


No room for solar panels here realistically and the calculators don't show them to be practical. Wind is intermittent with many still days, so turbines aren't practical either.

If anything, I'd want a power wall type system to charge off the grid and or off the generator so that I could cycle the generator on/off over so many hours to ration fuel.

So, if you have them, or have priced them, share the numbers!!

Power wall can charge off the grid if you don't have solar.
Power wall can charge off of solar.
Power wall cannot charge off of the grid if you have solar.
Power wall cannot charge off of a generator.

More fun facts...
https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/powerwall/learn/combining-systems
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #5  
Several years ago, I spec'd a system out on their website. You could place an order but at that time your deposit just got you a place in line (sound familiar!?)

The setup was batteries and auto transfer switch (no solar panels). This unit charged from the grid so view the setup as a whole house generator, only the batteries supply the power instead of a generator during an outage. I don't recall the price, but do recall for a setup that would go 7 days on my house with geothermal heat pump was about 3 times the cost of a LP whole house generator setup.
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #6  
If I had solar power, I think I'd just stick with a generator for power outages. They are few and far between. Generator is 1/7 the cost of the power wall. You can buy a lot of fuel for the $6K saved. Even an auto transfer auto start generator is 1/2 the cost of the power wall.

Now if you had solar panels with the capacity to run your house AND fully charge the power wall, then you'd be able to power your house from the batteries at night. But all that ads up the cost. I doubt you'd ever get the ESP/ROI on the entire system without massive tax credits. And what's the warranty on the batteries in the power wall?
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #7  
I've seen these things mentioned now a few times, but I haven't seen any pricing or costs.
So, if you have them, or have priced them, share the numbers!!

So, what I am wondering is,,,
What does it do?

Is it just some sort of backup for when power is out? Or does it reduce your electricity cost somehow??

You know,, like,, a garden tractor will cut grass,,
a snow blower will move snow,,
a wood splitter will,,, well you know,, SPLIT WOOD!!

I truly do not have an understanding as to what the $8K is gonna ,,,, DO!

What am I gonna get for the " pricing or costs " ?

Help,, please.

Thank you,,
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #8  
your buying storage capacity.

If I was in California with rolling blackouts and brownouts, coupled with solar, I would buy the power wall.
If I was in someplace that has a real winter with lots of days of overcast, I would buy a generator.

I just bought this little thing for my cabin. It has enough capacity to where I can power the entire cabin for 4 nights without a charge. If I add 2 100w solar panels, and the sun cooperates, I can add back in enough power to never have to charge it from a generator. It basically the same thing as a power wall, but it has a lot more features. For most people, this little thing would work for most power outages without having to run a generator. Then it acts as a back up if the power goes out here at home if I don't feel like hooking up the kubota generator.

Bluetti AC2??P 2???Wh/2???W Portable Power Station|Solar Generator
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #9  
BRAGGIN RIGHTS!
Like when de girls at tennis club and Boopsie tell Winnie (very sorority names) how 3 door ZeroZone finally not freezin de milk. Now maybe she key in grocery order fer home delivery.
Probly works fer guys in funny costumes chasin little ball around pasture too. I see it bein real big wid de Longgggg Island fellows who made (removed) lot of money after flood.
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #10  
Tesla et al batterries about $1k per kw here, run on solar during day and use surplus at night, grid charges are high but it is hard to justify a 15kw battery and 10kw solar, we are getting about 8kw solar, $4k with government rebates, just waiting on install at the moment.
Wind is high maintainance according to most installers.
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #11  
Well, here is some first hand experience. We have signed up to install Powerwalls in addition to our solar. We were definitely influenced by local incentives. Us installing batteries helps lower the cost of power on the grid, as our batteries will supply peak power that would otherwise have to come from expensive "peaker" generation units. We get outage reliability, and others get more reliable power at a lower cost. Win-win.

MossRoad is right on the money about charging solar vs. grid, although there is apparently one guy in Arizona who has managed to be able to charge from the grid and solar.

The Powerwalls run about $7,000/13.2kWh battery. Each group of up to ten batteries require a gateway controller (transfer switch, plus some smarts) for another $1,000. Installation costs are variable. Tesla will typically do it for several thousand, but they are very cookie cutter. If your situation doesn't match what they do, forget about it. Tesla won't do it. Third party contractors may charge $3-10,000 around here, depending on the complexity of the job. (Not really apples to apples, as they tend to do the ones Tesla won't.) Since each Powerwall can output up to 7kw, or 29+amps, many people need a main panel upgrade to handle the solar & Powerwall currents which may be enough to overload the existing bus bars. You need at least one Powerwall for every 3.3kW of solar power, or the Powerwalls will throttle the solar down to keep from exceeding the charge rate on the Powerwall. If you have household demand (ovens, AC/heat) that can absorb the excess solar energy, you can get away with more solar relative to the Powerwalls.

The devil is in the details, as different "authorities having jurisdiction" are all over the map on what is allowable on a battery install. As in crazy, crazy differences of opinion. I think that the US would benefit from a uniform national electric and national fire codes. As far as I can tell, this is an evolving, you might even say rapidly evolving, area of building code and code enforcement. Some of those requirements will greatly affect your cost. E.g. the next town over from here is worried about driving a fully loaded 1 ton pickup into your garage wall, so they want concrete filled steel bollards strong enough to stop said pickup from hitting a battery on a garage wall. Another local town requires a big disconnect next to every battery and at least one more next to the main panel. Mine requires batteries to be 36" apart, and at least 36" all directions from any door or window that goes into living spaces. It all adds up.
Unlike some of the competitors, these are lithium ion batteries, just like Tesla cars. Every non-Tesla battery alternative that I looked at was much more expensive, and none of the competitors have the long track record to support their MTBF numbers. I'm not a Tesla fan, nor do I rush to buy the latest just because it is new. Tesla's batteries literally have hundreds of millions of discharge cycles on them today, so you have a good idea of what you are buying. Nobody else comes close. I am not saying that the other brands aren't reliable, but I am pointing out that they don't have the data to support the MTBF reliability claims that Tesla has.

Tesla warrantees the batteries for 10 years, and an unlimited number of charge / discharge cycles if it is coupled with solar. The guarantee is that the battery will have 70% of its capacity at the end of ten years.

Whether installing batteries has a return on investment is dependent on lots of variables; reliability of your grid, availability of alternate sources of energy, cost of alternative energy sources, other risk factors, and how long you expect to be out of power. As MossRoad mentioned, incentives can make a huge difference on the costs and the ROI. I have watched lots of folks go through the various trade offs and come to very different decisions for what I think are very sensible reasons. This is truly YMMV.

I do know of someone locally who went to a small commercial Tesla PowerPack (3 phase, 232kWh battery system) and solar because it was cheaper than having the local utility trench the 350 feet from the nearest pole. He is totally off grid, within sight of a utility pole. In what can only be described as large lot suburbia. No incentives. Blows my mind. I am always amazed at what pencils out. One way to look at that is to see the coming end of centralized electrical utility grids. Oh, he charges his electric cars from the solar as well.

Our utility is in the process escalating the fees to be connected to the grid. On one of our meters, the non-power charges are 90% of the bill. As this utility pricing trend continues, I think more folks will find that these solar / battery systems make more sense than joining the grid. That meter is close to going off grid.

Not to pick on Texas, but I think that the failure of the natural gas supply during this winter storm due to electrical grid shutdowns highlights some of the challenges of relying on standby natural gas generators for an outage. Locally, when we moved in our propane supplier was very clear not to expect propane during a winter storm event if we had a generator. They told us that if we were to install a standby propane powered generator we would need to install a separate propane tank for however long we wanted to run the generator for during the outage. Locally, we have seen ten day plus outages due to storms, far longer due to fire and earthquakes. That can run to some rather large propane tanks.

I live in California and our electrical utility has gone from ok to bad to worse. We had four outages in December of at least four hours each, three of which just happened. No storm, nothing, just "poof", no power. With the utility's plan to shut power off in advance of any temperature/wind event for fire reasons, we are losing power for one to two weeks or more every year. Having to work from suddenly crystallizes what the hourly cost of not being able to work is, and those ROI calculations suddenly look a lot more favorable to a whole house standby generator or powerwalls. In a fire prone area, having batteries has certain obvious safety advantages over large propane/diesel/gasoline tanks, along with extended run times.

I firmly believe that these are very individual decisions, and where you come out is greatly influenced by your local details.

Sorry for the long post.

All the best,

Peter

P.S. FWIW: Tesla is currently running six months or more behind on Powerwall orders. Less, if you buy from them, longer if you buy from third parties. We signed a contract for Powerwalls in May of 2020, with a current delivery date mid to late 2021.
 
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/ Power Wall Pricing #13  
Some good points & some confusion.
Way I reading power wall is more or less system of batterys + inverter. Battery get charged from either PoCo or Solar or both depending whats available to keep battery charged.

Battery deliver power to house as needed thru inverter. House needs more then battery has, PoCo absorbs peak. Kind of reverse peak shedding from normal industrial situation.

National Electrical Code, been around long as I can remember. Local AHJ gets to decide who inspects on town by town basis. Got about 6 in dis area, all romex ropers makin some side money. NOT GOOD.
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #14  
Some good points & some confusion.
Way I reading power wall is more or less system of batterys + inverter. Battery get charged from either PoCo or Solar or both depending whats available to keep battery charged.

Battery deliver power to house as needed thru inverter. House needs more then battery has, PoCo absorbs peak. Kind of reverse peak shedding from normal industrial situation.

National Electrical Code, been around long as I can remember. Local AHJ gets to decide who inspects on town by town basis. Got about 6 in dis area, all romex ropers makin some side money. NOT GOOD.

Nope. It can get charged from the power company. Or it can get charged from solar. It can't get charged from both, according to their website.
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #15  
Some good points & some confusion.
Way I reading power wall is more or less system of batterys + inverter. Battery get charged from either PoCo or Solar or both depending whats available to keep battery charged.

Battery deliver power to house as needed thru inverter. House needs more then battery has, PoCo absorbs peak. Kind of reverse peak shedding from normal industrial situation.

National Electrical Code, been around long as I can remember. Local AHJ gets to decide who inspects on town by town basis. Got about 6 in dis area, all romex ropers makin some side money. NOT GOOD.

Just to clarify:
Yes, Powerwalls are a battery pack coupled to an AC charger and inverter.
With the grid up the house can draw from one or more of solar, Powerwall, grid.
The actual breakdown depends on the software settings in the Powerwall, and things like sunshine. Some of which you control. You get to set what the reserve is on the battery, and when you want to draw on the battery, e.g. trying to avoid peak rates on electricity. (You don't get to choose to have the Powerwall charge from the grid, except in Stormwatch mode, which Tesla sets when a power outage is expected, or might be expected to occur.)

The Powerwalls charge at 3.3kW, output up to 7kW surge, and 5kW sustained. So, yes, even if you specify battery power priority, if the house demand exceeds 7kW short term, or 5kW sustained (per Powerwall), you will draw from the grid, if there is no solar. Solar adds to your cushion.

It sounds complicated because I am not explaining it well, but is totally automatic, "set it and forget it" to use.

All the best,

Peter
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #16  
Peter,
Their website says this:
tesla said:
Powerwall & the Grid
When Powerwall is installed without solar, it can charge from the grid if in Backup-only or Time-Based Control to support you during grid outages and to help you save money on your electricity bill. When Powerwall is installed with solar, it will not be able to charge from the grid.

Am I understanding it incorrectly or something (wouldn't doubt it :laughing:)
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #17  
Peter,
Their website says this:


Am I understanding it incorrectly or something (wouldn't doubt it :laughing:)

Thanks for the great catch!

No you are right. If you install Powerwalls with no solar, you can charge from the grid. A point I tried to clarify in my first post.

I fluffed my answer to (removed). I was thinking of the solar plus Powerwall case. My apologies.

The exception not made clear in the Tesla website text is that if Tesla declares a stormwatch event, the Powerwalls can charge from the grid. (To be fully charged in the event of an outage.)

All the best,

Peter
 
/ Power Wall Pricing #19  
I've seen these things mentioned now a few times, but I haven't seen any pricing or costs. The crazy Mars guy's company offers one and Generac has something. Might even be the same, rebranded.

But none of the sites I've seen have prices. They all want in home quotes I don't want to get into that if it's going to be 10 grand. A search just now shows third party sites claiming up to 15 grand including installation. That ain't a'gonna happen.


No room for solar panels here realistically and the calculators don't show them to be practical. Wind is intermittent with many still days, so turbines aren't practical either.

If anything, I'd want a power wall type system to charge off the grid and or off the generator so that I could cycle the generator on/off over so many hours to ration fuel.

So, if you have them, or have priced them, share the numbers!!

Did you know that the power wall requires a live internet connection to work? If you live in the internet third world like me (aka Not in a big city in Canada), when your internet goes down your powerwall doesn't work.
 
/ Power Wall Pricing
  • Thread Starter
#20  
^^ That's something that laws need to change. Lots of things now require the ability to 'phone home' to work normally. Can you imagine a whole home of 'smart things' that you can't use when the web goes down? You might not even be able to turn some lights on/off.
 
 
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