Preparing for Sandy

[Rob-D]

Humour me please with this one.
I know I'm just a stupid Limey but why buy water from Walmart when you can fill containers from the tap?

Is it me ??

"Two things are infinite the universe and human stupidity.... I'm not sure about the universe!"

Albert Einstein

 

[Rob-D]

I'd say, the forecasters have been pretty accurate, so far. Here in NE PA the wind has gotten to be a pretty constant "low howl", with occasional gusts, which rattle things pretty good. There is kind of a fog moving near the ground, with intermittent heavy rain. All of which, seems to be intensifying. The lights have flickered a couple of times. I'll have a much better feel for the outcome of things tomorrow. :laughing:

I've been monitoring weather for years. I've yet to see NOAA's wind predictions actually reach NOAA's wind predictions.
Rob

 

[Bird]

Humour me please with this one.
I know I'm just a stupid Limey but why buy water from Walmart when you can fill containers from the tap?

Is it me ??

There are a few, very few in my opinion, places in this country where some, not many, people don't like the taste of the water, but I guess I'm stupid like you. I would never have thought people would be goofy enough to pay soda pop prices for water. But they do. And I still find it incredible. I think it's primarily to show that they have more money than they need.

 

[newbury]

<SNIP> I think it's primarily to show that they have more money than they need.

That's more money than brains. I like to put up a couple of jugs of water also.

 

[Rob-D]

That's more money than brains. I like to put up a couple of jugs of water also.

View attachment 286768

I love the people walking around with plastic water bottles, it cracks me up, half the water in those bottles is plain tap water with bleach added. How do you think they keep that water from growing bacteria? I have a filtration system here, my well to a 5 micron to a 1 micron filter to UV to my mouth. I don't trust the water coming from the ground anymore.
When we go out we take thermos bottles with cool water from our filtered tap. We know what we're getting.
I wonder what goes on in people's brains? Maybe we're just getting old but it seems to us that fewer and fewer people actually think for themselves.

 

[riptides]

I've been monitoring weather for years. I've yet to see NOAA's wind predictions actually reach NOAA's wind predictions.
Rob

Well, welcome to the first time. We have hit 60mph already, they are saying 70-80mph in a few hours.

 

[Rob-D]

Well, welcome to the first time. We have hit 60mph already, they are saying 70-80mph in a few hours.

Did you monitor it yourself? I'm doing actual mointoring here for years. They said 55 mph gusts here this afternoon and the highest it ever got was 41.

 

[Radar52]

Wind in Southeast MI is now gusting to 45-55 mph thanks to Sandy, all you folks in the east hang in there and stay safe. Looks like this could be a long couple of days before this is over.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Why cant the intertie be auto switched off line -- just by a solenoid de energizing, and leave panel output to be used on site??

You could but the problem is load management. Let's say you're running just on panels into the inverter and you turn on a washing machine that draws more than the panels put out. The system would drop below the required power needed. Batteries are buffers, they can supply large amounts of power and by charging the batteries with the panels you create a reserve.
Rob

Understood, but you have batteries that could be autoconnected to buffer the panels. It wouldnt take all that much capacity to smooth power demand spikes. Just waste the excess --or use it frivolously. Seems a small price to pay to keep all panels on line while grid is down.
larry

That would be fine if the sun was a constant and the panel output was also a relative constant from sunrise to sunset. Batteries give you power at night and maximize the panel power by storing it so the panels action is more than buffering.
You could have minimal batteries, just enough to keep surges from dropping the power but you would have zero reserve, the batteries run the house, fridges, etc. all night.

Let's say it's noon and the panels are putting out max power but the house is only calling for a fraction of that. All that extra power is stored in the batteries and at 8 pm, when that power is needed it's there. So while buffering for surges is important so is the reserve.
Rob

These things are intuitively obvious. Those to whom they are not will thank you.
larry

 

[vtsnowedin]

I've been monitoring weather for years. I've yet to see NOAA's wind predictions actually reach NOAA's wind predictions.
Rob

That could be because the bureaucracy never wants to be wrong in either direction. As long as some place in the forecast area has the terrain to funnel the wind to a higher velocity, think a "Sheba's breast " situation where two hills force all the air moving past them through the cleavage between, they will predict the high end of wind speed to be what might happen in that narrow pass. The fact that you in more ordinary terrain experience much lower wind speeds does not bother them as you are inside the range of high and low they predicted.

 

[Tig]

There are a few, very few in my opinion, places in this country where some, not many, people don't like the taste of the water, but I guess I'm stupid like you. I would never have thought people would be goofy enough to pay soda pop prices for water. But they do. And I still find it incredible. I think it's primarily to show that they have more money than they need.

When the old water tower and treatment system in Trenton was discontinued due to quality problems, a budding entrepreneur leased it and started a bottled water company. It was a real head shaker, but it didn't last long.
For storm preparation, we always fill the bathtub. Not potable in there but a half a pail will do a flush.

 

[radioman]

They just closed schools in my area...
My kids are thrilled for a "snow day" with no snow.

 

[newbury]

<snip> we always fill the bathtub. Not potable in there but a half a pail will do a flush.

And that's a fallacy - if it's tap water and a clean tub what's the problem? Put it in a kettle and boil it and it will do for drinking water in a pinch.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Yea you would think the company installing the solar system would have designed that into the system.:banghead:

EDIT: Oh darn. It looks like somebody beat me to it.

The thing is, without a battery bank, a solar system is no good, because the power is too inconsistent. So many people who put in solar just go grid-tied. When their usage exceeds the solar panels' output, they draw the excess from the grid; when the panels exceed their draw, they feed back to the grid. At the end of the month, if they are net-negative, they may get a credit from the power company. But when the grid is down, the cells are useless, and the backfeeding creates a dangerous situation for the line workers.

Why don't more people put in a battery bank, you might ask? My guess is cost. A battery bank to run a home might run $10k or more, and you have the additional complexity of the charge controller, a more complicated switching setup, so that the panels know when to charge the batteries vs. feeding the grid, etc... A lot of people buy the panels first and foremost to reduce their environmental impact and cut down on their electric bill. Getting power during an outage is not their concern.

 

[forgeblast]

Emergency Water Kit We have one of these systems if we need to filter. We also have a uv filter on our well water but if the powers off so is the light.
It appears we made it out of the storm with litte to no damage, now its calling friends and family to see who needs help.

 

[Baby Grand]

Welder-generator is barking in the back yard. Our power went out last night about 8 pm, but only because a tree at the end of our street took out the line on the state road. Power outage maps show our area didn't do too badly, but some of our neighboring towns got hammered. Hope everyone is safe, on high ground & dry.

 

[pennwalk]

HUGE relief! We dodged the bullet here. Still had power when we woke up. We had 3 teases where the lights flickered. The basement is dry and there is only 3 inches in the rain gauge. There are 3 or 4 small branches down but there sure are a lot of leaves on the ground. Now all we have to do is clean up from the preparations and we will be back to normal.

Chris

 

[RoyJackson]

HUGE relief! We dodged the bullet here. Still had power when we woke up. We had 3 teases where the lights flickered. The basement is dry and there is only 3 inches in the rain gauge. There are 3 or 4 small branches down but there sure are a lot of leaves on the ground. Now all we have to do is clean up from the preparations and we will be back to normal.

Chris

I'm about 15 miles west of pennwalk...same thing here, just leaves down. I haven't seen any branches or limbs down at all.

 

[RoyJackson]

HUGE relief! We dodged the bullet here. Still had power when we woke up. We had 3 teases where the lights flickered. The basement is dry and there is only 3 inches in the rain gauge. There are 3 or 4 small branches down but there sure are a lot of leaves on the ground. Now all we have to do is clean up from the preparations and we will be back to normal.

Chris

I'm about 15 miles west of pennwalk...same thing here, just leaves down. I haven't seen any branches or limbs down at all.

 

[Rob-D]

EDIT: Oh darn. It looks like somebody beat me to it.

The thing is, without a battery bank, a solar system is no good, because the power is too inconsistent. So many people who put in solar just go grid-tied. When their usage exceeds the solar panels' output, they draw the excess from the grid; when the panels exceed their draw, they feed back to the grid. At the end of the month, if they are net-negative, they may get a credit from the power company. But when the grid is down, the cells are useless, and the backfeeding creates a dangerous situation for the line workers.

Why don't more people put in a battery bank, you might ask? My guess is cost. A battery bank to run a home might run $10k or more, and you have the additional complexity of the charge controller, a more complicated switching setup, so that the panels know when to charge the batteries vs. feeding the grid, etc... A lot of people buy the panels first and foremost to reduce their environmental impact and cut down on their electric bill. Getting power during an outage is not their concern.

I've been living with alternate energy for several years. My off grid system went in in 2006 with 8 panels and one Outback 48 volt inverter at 3.6Kw capacity (now I have two for 7.2Kw). The batteries in 2006 (8 Rolls 530S cost $1600), had I gone with an intertie back then it would have cost me about the same aside from the batteries and charge controller (MX60 costing $500.00). In 2011 I got a grant to put in a 6.4Kw intertie which covers all my electric usage so the off grid system does act as a big UPS(uninterruptable power supply) like sits next to most computers. (My intertie covers all my energy usage and then some (I have a credit at the power company).
This summer I built the mounts for 12 more panels (Sharp 240 watt = 2880 total watts plus my original 1400 watts; 4280 total power) Now the off grid system has two Outback inverters and two MPPT (maximum power point tracking) charge controllers (one for each panel bank). The extra power on myoff grid system will supplement my heat. Since I built my own panel racking for the off grid system the total cost of everything, on and off grid, is about 15k. Total power is 10.72 Kw.

Batteries aren't that much, either are charge controllers. Because my batteries aren't discharged everyday (batteries are rated in charge cycles) they will likely last 20+ years. When the power goes out they cover my house for long as I need it. Next I'm making windmills and microhyro. With the addition of those I will have continuous power regardless of the sun. And with that I expect to heat my house for free. Next year I'll install another intertie for my off grid system so that during the summer I can send all my spare power back to the grid.
Last night the power went on and off several times. We watched Netflix on our large screen TV, my two freezers with all our summer garden vegetables never lost power nor did the fridge, well pump or oil burner motor. I can't put a price on what that's worth.