Price Check Price variation between dealers

[George in Spokane]

Wow, prices really differ between dealers.

I went to my local Kubota dealer in Spokane WA and I was quoted $19,995 for a L3240 with R1 tires with rimguard. He said R1's save me $300 so I figure that should compensate for the rimguard (which I have purchased before).

Looking at other people's recent postings I saw prices as low as $18,850. I guess the moral of the story is you need to bargain.

 

[teg]

careful that you don't end up with a bad dealer that doesn't know how to use a computer to keep up with Product Improvement Bulletins.... worst $1000 I ever saved True moral of the story, talk to people who have had problems with their tractor and how that dealer handles them. Find a good dealer, if he's also lower priced, so much the better.

 

[75H2]

By shopping & bargaining I saved $1,650 from one dealer to the next. Persistance & research pays off big time

 

[GaryCrowell]

I bought a 72 HP massey ferguson with loader a couple of years ago and shopped prices amongst several dealers within a 50 mile radius. The prices quoted varied by $3500 from highest to lowest. The lowest priced was the closest, and he's got a good reputation so I bought from him.

 

[montanaman]

There are MANY MANY things that determine the price that a dealer is selling a tractor for. As a dealer, I will not quote a price on a tractor if the customer is far enough away that I know they won't buy from me. This is one area, where the internet clouds things. You need to keep in mind the cost of living in the area where you live. For me to give a guy in a very high cost of living area, the price I can sell a tractor for, is only going to give him a price to take to his local dealer that his local dealer can't match. As we should all be aware of by now, the US dollar is shrinking compared to every other currency in the world. A dealer that just got a load of tractors, was charged more than he was for the last load of tractors, so if dealer A has a tractor a year older than dealer B, he can offer a lower price.

I lost a sale last year to another dealer only to later find out that even though the customer bought the same model tractor, it was an older model and was missing two big features. I did NOT have live power and had no rear remotes. He told me what he paid and the price difference was exactly the dealer cost difference between the two models. Make SURE it is the exact tractor that you are comparing!! After learning the features that my tractor had that weren't on the one he bought, he wasn't too thrilled about the money he saved. He also shops here for parts because it seems the low priced dealer isn't open too often.

Make sure you are giving all of the dealers the same information!! There are different incentives all the time and some times you can do better buying without financing, so make sure ALL dealers know if you need it delivered, if you are paying cash, if you are financing it,etc.

Just a few things to keep in mind. Also, as gets mentioned here all the time, don't forget service after the sale!

Ken

 

[GinNB]

Montanaman knows what he's talking about. There are so many features on even identical tractors that it's easy to miss one or two and have a $1000-$3000 or more cost differential. Even on "new" tractors, there are "new" tractors and "leftover" tractors that've been sitting on someone's lot for a year or two. Kubota offers discounts on these which an unscrupulous dealer might not pass on. Take note of things like the number of rear remotes, tire selection (not just ag/industrial/turf either- brand, size, and bias/radial sometimes makes a HUGE difference in price), cast wheel centers, self-levelling on the loader, additional function on the front loader, shuttle type, factory vs aftermarket cab, trade-in, and payment type (cash or Kubota financing).

As an example, even on a dealer's lot, I received a quote last year on an M125X that was $20,000 less than what I saw on a windshield sticker this year on a virtually identical tractor (can't remember if I was quoted on a self-levelling loader or with radial tires and this tractor had both) at the SAME DEALER. This year had cheaper tractor prices in Canada, too, because of our strong dollar. And yes, that was a twenty thousand dollar difference.

 

[Maka]

The Spokane Kubota dealer is known as a good dealer. Been there for years. Spoakne is an expensive place to do business and a dealer needs to make a living and be able to give the service.

For that money, give them your business and have a strong dealer backing you. Oh, I echo what Montana man had to say.

Maka

 

[George in Spokane]

Thanks Maka, I value your opinion.

 

[RFB]

I often wonder what folks mean when they say that a dealer offers "good service" or "service after the sale".

Isn't service just another "product" for sale?

I did not buy a dealer, I bought a tractor.

I understand that dealers are in business to make a profit. There's nothing wrong with that; its a good thing.

There also nothing wrong with a buyer shopping for the absolute lowest bottom line price. If the dealer goes out of business tomorrow, that is no concern of mine. I did not buy a dealer, I bought a tractor. Yes, it is difficult for the dealer, and he has my sympathy, but it is one of the vagaries of capitalism.

I also find it to be less than intellectually credible to think that where a person lives dictates how much a dealer will charge. Does the distributor (Kubota, JD, NH) charge dealers different prices based upon the dealers location?

 

[AKfish]

RFB --- well said. If the manufacturer did not attempt to "level the playing field" by subsidizing shipping of their tractors (or cars or trucks..) nobody outside of Detroit or Georgia would be able to compete.

That said, I honestly believe that not all facets of running a business are equal and that there are dealer costs of operating that are different by location.

Nonetheless, the age of the internet has made it more difficult for "obstinate" dealers to try and take advantage of geographic location and the consumer's limited access to alternative markets.

I shop around for a "reasonable" deal. I make that judgement based upon what I know someone else --- someplace else --- will sell that item to me for. I factor in all the variables that go into the purchase (my costs) and if the local guy is not outrageously overpriced; he's got my business.

I do not use the information from other dealer's to arm-twist for a better deal. I will state that the price is/is not competitive. And I'll give figures for what I know the price is if the dealer thinks I'm pullin' his chain. I don't BS and I don't name names. If the dealer can't or won't give me a "reasonable" price for the same machine --- then we don't have a deal.

I also do not waste any dealer's time with a bid request unless I'm "straight-in-the-eye" serious about buying from them.

As you noted, the vagaries of the market place don't leave alot of emotional capital for the "good local dealer" and having a "good relationship" with your dealer. He's gonna have to look out for his own long-term interests and you need to tend to your own financial judgements.

Nonetheless, wranglin' over the last dollar or simply tryin' to "win" (whatever that means...) in the deal isn't the ideal benchmark for good neighborliness and never leaves a good taste in my mouth, IMHO.

If you figure the guy cut you a reasonable offer and factoring in your knowledge of what the geographical costs of doin' business are --- it's a deal.

And maybe the next time your tractor needs some attention --- he'll get you on a backhaul leg and drop the charge.

"What goes out --- comes 'round". (Sometimes it can take awhile...)

AKfish

 

[RFB]

"he'll get you on a backhaul leg and drop the charge."

around here if you wait for a "backhaul leg", you won't have a leg to stand on.

Its minimum 4 hour round trip to any tractor dealer, so all routine maintenance is self-performed, and major requires owner-trailering to a dealer.

Service? Not in these parts.

 

[MikePA]

I also find it to be less than intellectually credible to think that where a person lives dictates how much a dealer will charge.

No one said this. Where the dealer is located, not the buyer, determines what it costs the dealer to do business.

Does the distributor (Kubota, JD, NH) charge dealers different prices based upon the dealers location?

Yes. There are different freight rates, but AFAIK, the underlying cost of the tractor remains the same. Sometimes the freight differences can be substantial. It costs more to ship a NH tractor from GA to Maine than from GA to SC.

This debate is almost as old as synthetic versus dino. Some people look at tractors like commodities. They don't want or need dealer service, while others do. So, yes, they are, in fact, 'buying a dealer'. There's no need to denigrate people in the opposite camp.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

You need to be sure your being quoted the same things. Yea, its possible to get under 19k with the DT transmission, but HST is a solid $1000 more and is closer to 20k. There are many options that can swing the price of a machine and you need to be verycareful about what you see online. Soon, you'll be getting prices for the models that have the emmissions equipment bolted on where the old ones did not, again... your going to see all the prices online for the models that where bought before this was mandated.

Rather than digging up old information, why not check with a few local dealer and get current pricing. Then base your decision on that.

 

[RFB]

MikePA

Maybe I am misunderstanding the following: "You need to keep in mind the cost of living in the area where you live."

Also, my post does not denigrate anyone. I am simply pointing out that one pays for whatever one purchases; that includes the equipment or the service.
The service is a commodity, so it is difficult for me to comprehend a scenario whereby one buys bacon at a higher price in the hope that later down the line the store owner will "allow" that same person to buy eggs. Service is purchased, just like anything else. Why should the price of service, or the availability of it, have anything to do with the price of equipment.

 

[Maka]

OK then. Folks, this in an intellectually credible person who should be heard and listened to. Please give him your complete attention.

Maka

 

[montanaman]

I often wonder what folks mean when they say that a dealer offers "good service" or "service after the sale".

Isn't service just another "product" for sale?

I did not buy a dealer, I bought a tractor.

I understand that dealers are in business to make a profit. There's nothing wrong with that; its a good thing.

There also nothing wrong with a buyer shopping for the absolute lowest bottom line price. If the dealer goes out of business tomorrow, that is no concern of mine. I did not buy a dealer, I bought a tractor. Yes, it is difficult for the dealer, and he has my sympathy, but it is one of the vagaries of capitalism.

I also find it to be less than intellectually credible to think that where a person lives dictates how much a dealer will charge.

A tractor comes with a warranty. A "good" dealer spends money to be able to properly repair your tractor both during the warranty and after the warranty. There are many things that a warranty does not cover that a dealer may not pass on to the customer if they made a little profit on the sale of the tractor. Transportation is not covered by any tractor Mfg, but many dealers will do this on a tractor they made some profit on. Shop supplies and fluids are not covered, but if you had a warranty claim that required all of the hyd oil to be changed, understand that if you aren't billed for it, the dealer ate it for you. The amount of time given to perform a job and the hourly rate is also determined by the Mfg for a warranty repair and in almost ALL cases, there is not enough time given and the dollar rate per hour can be half of the going rate in that shop.

I'm going to have to check with my wife and see what that string of fifty cent words means because she has a masters degree, but with my edumacation level, it almost sounds like you said I was dumb?

What I was trying to say is that the cost of living where the DEALERSHIP is, will have a lot to do with what they can sell a tractor for. If they have to pay four times my monthly expense for a building to do business out of, and two times what I pay in taxes and utilities, they WILL have to get more money for a tractor.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I can give a real life experiece of what you just described. We have a good reputation for selling machine at aggressive prices. We just had a guy 3 miles from our store go and buy from someone two hours away because they offered him a price $75 cheaper. A few months later a mandatory program was started to fix a mechanical issue on the machine. The selling dealer was a solid two hours away and never went and did the service on the machine that he sold. Sure enough, the machine failed from this problem and was brought into our shop for repair. On a repair of this type, there is not a prayer that we're not going to loose money on the warrnety work.

So the question is? Who is responsible for what?

The statement that your buying a machine and not a dealer could not be further from the truth. The absolute lowest price is not always the best choice to make.

 

[MikePA]

Maybe I am misunderstanding the following: "You need to keep in mind the cost of living in the area where you live."

Montanaman subsequently explained what he meant by this. I've dealt with some unusual businesses but never one that charged based on the cost of living where I live so I didn't take what Montanaman wrote that way.

Why should the price of service, or the availability of it, have anything to do with the price of equipment.

It all represents the cost of doing business. Anyone who has ever prepared a budget and worked through a chargeback model understands this. I imagine the Service Department is a profit center at most dealerships. Why should they have to take a loss on all warranty work? They shouldn't. So that gets figured into the selling price of the tractor.

If the dealer wants to sell a new line of equipment and the mfgr requires certain parts be stocked and specialty tools be purchased, why should the the parts and service depts costs go up to cover these expenses? Perhaps they pay half and sales pays half. This gets figured into the purchase price of the tractor.

Obviously, the customer doesn't know all this, they just see a price, not what went into it. These are just some very simple examples where the cost of providing service affects the selling price.

Many people have an unnatural hatred of big box stores. (I'm not implying you're one of them.) They decry and go on rants about no service, sales people who don't know the product, can't get help, etc. Well, big box stores are what you get when people shop strictly on purchase price. Want advice on what to buy? Too bad. Want service? Too bad, send it back to the mfgr. Want to know how to use it? Don't ask the sales person because they aren't sale people, they're shelf stockers.

Some people would be perfectly happy if they could buy a tractor out of a vending machine. I'm not one of them.

 

[Builder]

I can relate to getting a great deal on a purchase only to find the dealer won't do squat to help me later because he made little profit.

My hood on my Case has bubbled paint from improper primering. It's only 2 years old. The service manager came out to have a look, take the photos, the usual lip service. I befriended him a bit and he in not so many words said "we made so little on the sale of this machine that we don't have enough money in profit to repaint your hood". I should also mention the paint on the tractor IS no longer under warranty from CASE-NH, but he gave me the impression that if I had paid a "normal" price, there might be more "sympathy" for me and the hood might have been painted at the dealerships expense.

So I can pat myself on the back for getting a great price, but that also seems to come with a cold shoulder for any problems I have outside of my warranty.

I dunno......I fix anything that breaks on the stuff I built within reason.

 

[RFB]

maka & montanaman,

"...intellectually credible person" & "...it almost sounds like you said I was dumb?"

Not in any way. I do not partake in ad hominem arguments; I was addressing the logical validity of the premise.

montanaman,

"Shop supplies and fluids are not covered, but if you had a warranty claim that required all of the hyd oil to be changed, understand that if you aren't billed for it, the dealer ate it for you. The amount of time given to perform a job and the hourly rate is also determined by the Mfg for a warranty repair and in almost ALL cases, there is not enough time given and the dollar rate per hour can be half of the going rate in that shop."

I expect to be billed for everything that is not covered. When I use a physician's services, I pay for whatever exceeds my insurance coverage, and fully expect that billing process. The same is true for my auto insurance. A warranty is a type of insurance, with coverages and exclusions. I expect to pay for the exclusions. If the dealer decides it is economically advantageous to absorb those costs that is his decision. When one goes into business, all of the costs and risks are part of the decision making process. If a dealer believes that he cannot afford to provide full warranty service at the remuneration level the manufacturer provides, then possibly he should change his business model.

We have all heard the caveat about free lunches. Why should one believe that any company is in business to provide anything except value for value?
A businessman who chooses to take less than it costs for him to operate the business will not remain in business unless he is compensating in another area of the operation.

Mr. Messick,

"So the question is? Who is responsible for what?"

The contract spells that out in black and white; that is the purpose of all that small print. If it says I pay, then I reach for my wallet. If I do not educate myself to all of the details of the purchase, that's my responsibility, and my loss. I should not make the purchase if I cannot afford all of the costs involved. If the dealer eats costs because that is the nature of his business model, that's his responsibility.

MikePA,

I said: "Why should the price of service, or the availability of it, have anything to do with the price of equipment."

By this I meant that the price on the tractor should not be used as an excuse for refusing to perform under the terms of the contract.

You said: "Why should they have to take a loss on all warranty work? They shouldn't."

I agree 100%

"So that gets figured into the selling price of the tractor."

Exactly my point. And if it is not being included as it should be, why should the customer take the hit?

Again, if the dealer eats costs because that is the nature of his business model, that's his responsibility. If one premise of being a dealer is a responsibility to service everyone regardless of sales location, that is a factor in calculating whether he has the capital to support that type of business venture.

Builder,

"...there might be more "sympathy" for me..."

I do not desire sympathy. I expect the dealer to uphold his end of the contract. Nothing more or less.


It's not personal; its business.