pricing a tilling job

daycab · Jan 3, 2004

Does anyone here charge for work you do on your tractor? I'm considering buying a tiller for my tractor, but in order to justify the expense, I need to make a few dollars with it. I have no idea how much to charge to till a garden. My guess is hourly. Thanks for your help.

PineRidge · Jan 3, 2004

My advice to you would be to check your competition. See what others in your area are charging for the same services and then charge accordingly. Try checking in your newspaper under the classifieds as well as I always see ads in mine for tilling. Good luck with your new business! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RonR · Jan 3, 2004

Hi Daycab,

I'm facing this question as well. I have a different approach to hourly though. I think it would work better than saying to someone "I'll do it for $X an hour."

Some tilling jobs you will spend more time getting the tractor ready, traveling, setting up, driving home, than actually tilling the ground. So if you tell someone $40 an hour, then spend 15 minutes tilling, they'll want to pay you $10 and you'll have to really make it up in volume to break even (grin).

I think a better approach is to figure out your costs per hour--and some it will be based on guesswork, such as how many hours per year you plan to work for pay. But if you know your costs are $25 an hour, you need to make at least that to cover your costs.

Once you know this, then you can estimate a job IN YOUR MIND at a rate you choose. Say 30 minutes of tilling, plus 30 minutes set up/travel, so bid the job at $40 flat for a one time pass or $75 for once now, once in a week. If customer wants to know an hourly rate, you can say you base your estimate on a fair rate for the equipment, your skill, and your time.

That does a couple of things. You don't have to feel like you have to rush. The customer will know the price before you start. And you can do a quality job, have an iced tea with him, admire the work, etc. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'd like to tell you that this works great, but I'm just starting, and haven't had any customers yet......

Best wishes,
ron

RobertN · Jan 3, 2004

Find out the going rate in your particular area. Then base your rate your capabiliteis to perform the same work. If CUT's are getting $40/hr, but you are new to the work, maybe go a little less while you learn the ropes.

$45/hr, 3hr minimum. 1st hour is dropoff/setup. This is pretty standard at least around here.

Neighbor runs a Case 580K backhoe. $85/hr, 3hr minimum.
CUT's are getting ~$45/hr
Skidsteers are getting ~$65/hr

In Sacramento, my buddy is $75/hr for his Bobcat and flatbed-dump.

A lot of people do not understand the costs; I surely did not. Once you do it though, it really adds up. You've got:
truck
trailer
tractor
attachments
vehicle insurance
liability insurance
office ect.

So, in order to make the business work, you have to figure these things in.

It's kinda like the plumber who comes out with a 1hr minimum at $65/hr. Takes him 5 minutes to fix a simple problem. DANG! That was expensive! Why didn't he chage for just 5 minutes??? With all his tools, truck, insurance fuel, ect. he may have had a $30-45 overhead just to get the truck in to your driveway.

RayDiers · Jan 3, 2004

Here in Central Wisconsin I charge $40 an hour for tilling. There is a minimum charge of $40. There are many times when I till for only 15 minutes but like said before travel, unload and load all take time. Some customers have their own tillers but do not want to break the ground that first time, saves them a lot of sore arms. One tilling job was for 6 hrs (about 3 acres) with two passes a few days apart.

Ray

tawilson · Jan 4, 2004

Just starting up here also. I was figuring $35/hr based on what I've gathered about the going rate here. I put my tractor and tiller by the road with a sign on it just to see the response last fall and got $300 worth of work(took me 8 hours). People with larger patches are gonna want estimates, you'll just have to get your feet wet and learn. I also am offering brush hog, camp road maintenance(york rake and backblade), stump grinding, chipping, etc. Hoping to recoup some of the small fortune I spent on this stuff.

micromike · Jan 4, 2004

I've been considering doing the same thing and checking out pricing. The method I like best is...

$250 Minimum. This covers the first three hours and $50 an hour after that. This gets you loading time, transport, overhead etc. plus your hourly rate to make it worth it just to get set up, but a fair rate to the customer after your expenses are met.

Adjust the costs to meet your equipment costs etc. and of course you minimum may change depending how far you have to travel.

Mike

PineRidge · Jan 4, 2004

Mike I would think that if others in your area aren't charging a minimum of $200 then you would be waiting for the phone to ring for a long time.

I have never seen any minimums posted in our Ohio classifieds but I am sure that all areas would establish their own rates dependant on how many folks there are with tractors/tillers to offer their services.

Rowski · Jan 5, 2004

I've been doing side work with the tractor for 2 summers now. This last summer I was really busy due to getting a trailer. I actually turned away work and have 1/3 of my next summer booked. Basically I'll look at job for nothing. But I don't go out of my way either, if I'm near by I'll look at it. I charge $45 dollars for local transportation to and from the job site, basically it comes to about an hour of my time. My rates are as follows $45 per hr for plain tractor work with loader and backhoe and driveway work. I get $55 per hr for pto driven equipment, rotary cutter, Harley rake, chipper. Hand labor, chain saw, hand held brush cutter, etc is $35 per hr, that's if I don't use my tractor.

It is hard to give estimates on how much jobs are due to many factors that you don't know about till you start working. If people are really stuck on having a price I usually explain to them my rate for the job and ask them how much they want to spend. If it $500 then that is how much work they get.

Hope this helps.

tawilson · Jan 5, 2004

Rowski,
I was figuring on an extra $5/hour for pto driven equipment. I'm surprised you don't include the backhoe in that also. Also, after you do enough of these projects, don't you get enough of a feel for it to give estimates. I did a couple of small estimated jobs last year and made out well. That also gives you the option of bringing on some cheap help if you need it.

avclay · Jan 7, 2004

I started doing some side jobs last summer, mostly moving fill or box scapring and raking. I started out w/ $50 to show up (minimum) and $25/hr. This worked pretty well until I got a job about 30-45 minutes away, which was the first job I had to trailer to. I never factored the trailer loading (both coming and going) and travel time. This wound up cutting significantly into my $s/hr.

Some people want a complete job estimate. I learned the hard way you should include extra time into the estimate to account for travel, getting stuck, equipment breaks, flat tires, and other unforseen problems. Usually the customer finds one or two more things they want done before you leave and if you completed the job without problems you can throw these in for free in you feel the need. Plus, I found I usually get one or two more jobs from the one I'm currently doing, so that could be factored into your final charge.

Another issue I had was working for a contractor as a "sub." My area is prospering with new buildings and many people are "contracting" without much knowledge / experience. I looked over the job, gave a time estimate, and general directions on where the fill should go. First weekend I was there the fill wasn't. When the fill did get there it was in the wrong spots which meant more time to complete the job.

I made the mistake of telling the customer the payment arrangement I had with the "contractor" which p/o'd the contractor and then I had to go direct with the customer. I know its common practice for the contractor to make a percentage off of the subs, but apparently this one was planning on making quite a bit of money off of my work. At $25/hr this customer was willing to keep me there for what seemed like forever. Also customers and new contractors don't always have the money they say they have. I plan on getting about half the job cost from most people up front from now on.

I found I can't be afraid to tell a customer what I can't or won't do. There's not enough money to keep driving your tires over glass, to me at least. Some jobs require a backhoe or bulldozer but your cheaper so a customer will see if you can do it first. More work is tempting, but at what cost to you and your machine? There's also the issue of observing property lines or wetland areas, etc. etc.

Lastly, discuss where pipes, septics, wells, wires, graves, or anything else may be and who will be responsible for any damage. I uncovered a cable wire by just spinning my tires on one site. No damage to the cable and by code it is supposed to be buried deeper than an inch in the ground, but who would be responsible if it split? All I know is it'd be ugly......

And this was what I learned in just the first year! Can't wait for this summer!

RonR · Jan 7, 2004

Hi AVCLAY,

Sounds like you learned a LOT. Next year, at this time, I should have some horror stories as well.

I think you hit on one of the key things--know when to say NO Thanks to a job. I think an easy way is just to say "that's beyond what my equipment can do, sorry".

We also have retrofitted cable TV lines that are either laying on top of the ground or 1" deep. I plan to insist on a dig safe marking before I do anything that digs more than tilling. When we tilled our back yard this fall, I chopped up 10 ft of cable. The company came out, repaired it, and laid it on top of the ground as usual for that 10 ft. I ripped a trench with one ripper blade and put it 12 inches down! End of problem, for that section. (Sure hope they used a waterproof connector on the splice!)

I plan to have a website where people can view my work (so far, it's only my backyard, but we've done alot). On that site, I plan to list all I can and CANNOT do. Things like dozing, digging a basement, trenching for footings, etc--you have to go elsewhere.

I don't plan to haul dirt in or out, I'll just level what they want.

I'm also not an engineer, so I don't plan to offer advice on how to build or install something. They say "Dig Here". That's where I'll dig. But it won't be my design.

Best wishes,
Ron

tawilson · Jan 7, 2004

Something to think about is insurance. I took out a landscapers policy last month. I'm doing some snowplowing and I needed to get insurance on my equipment so I figured I'd get what I need now.

RobertN · Jan 7, 2004

We charge as I mentioned above. $45/hr, 3 hour minimum.

You mention a really good point. Have your job checked by "USA"(Underground Service Alert here in Calif). It is easy to do, and costs nothing. At least that will take care of marking the major utilites. the rest you need to discuss with the homeowner or contractor.

And don't be afraid to say no. Tearing up your equipment and running more hours is not usually the way to go.

We have a network started. If I can not or do not want to do a job, I will tell the customer about someone who has the right equipment. Never know, they may need work later and ask you since you were helpful.

RobertN · Jan 7, 2004

Check ours out. It is pretty simple, and does not include tractor work in particular. The web page is pretty small right now as we justed started it. But, it does give you something to send a customer to for a portfolio.
webs.directcon.net/renielsen/index.html

RonR · Jan 7, 2004

Nice page Robert!

I'm thinking along those lines for my webpage. We have a lot of commercial landscapers here, associated with nurseries mostly, so I don't plan to get into that part of the biz. Plus I don't know nothin' about doing that.

I'm just an old farm kid who likes running his tractor, and I'm very good with the loader and other tools.

I also got the liability insurance and loss coverage for off my property. That cost me almost $1K! Couldn't find it for less this year, but plan to shop again at renewal time.

Take Care,
Ron

RobertN · Jan 8, 2004

My wife used a simple web designerr that came with our ISP. There are some much better and faster web designer software, but this was free /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Insurance is expensive. It adds to your overhead., like the short list I posted back a ways in this thread. Ouch /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Dave___in___CT · Jan 8, 2004

Insurance...

I tell the prospective customer I have no insurance... and leave it up to them...

Anyone know where the responsibility lies if something happens at the customer's property ?

Them ? ...or me.. ?

Dave...

Golfgar4 · Jan 8, 2004

( Anyone know where the responsibility lies if something happens at the customer's property ?

Them ? ...or me.. ?
)

 YOU!! 

I'd be willing to bet YOUR tractor, that unless the customer signed a Hold Harmless agreement waiving all liability for you, you would be held responsible even if you had told them that you didn't have any insurance.

It wouldn't be worth the chance to me. Remember, you're not just concerned with property damage. You have to consider the possibility of bodily injury too. I'd get the insurance.

tawilson · Jan 8, 2004

No way would I operate without insurance. If I cannot afford the $700/year then I will keep the tractor to home. Plus, this society is sue happy. I own a campsite and am being sued for $200,000 right now by someone who wasn't a registered camper and was somewhere where she shouldn't have been.
Also, from what I've gathered, you are responsible for what your tractor does, no matter who's operating it.