I, like some others here, have tried to remain passive on this issue and just read the thread. Obviously I have failed/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif. I have three topics to bring out.
1 Regarding Spencer2000's post on setting margin and politely declining any business below this. Its interesting you should mention 9%. I went through this whole process with our local dealer. I got an internet quote, brought it to him to match, and he refused. I should say that Carver's were not competitve with the quote I got, but that he was still less than my local dealer. The range was $24000 for low bid, $25000 for Carver, and $26000 for local dealer (roughly speaking). This was for a 2710 with a hoe, mmm, FEL. I worked hard with my local dealer to get him down at least to Carver's level, but in the end, he took the same position you mentioned, but his number was 15%/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif!!! Later, he admitted that my total price came out to about 9%, but that HE COULDN"T LIVE ON THAT MARGIN! Maybe, on a collective basis, this is true, overhead being what it is. But on a single case basis, for an obviously informed buyer who wanted to keep buisness local, he should have made an exception. These machines have very little problems. The 9% is more than reasonable compensation for assembly work, not to mention that it contributes to their volume numbers. Now, if they were so unwilling ot view me as an individual, instead of a transaction that would lower thier weighted average profit margin, why should I expect they would treat me any better down the road?? Also, I was willing to give him a nice profit with little work, even if it wasn't what he planned for in his "business plan". AND he would have a customer for life if he showed some flexibility. BOTTOM LINE - holding to your margin is a chicken**** way of saying I am unwilling to treat you as an individual and try to meet your expectiations.
Second point. Some of you dealer types seem to be preaching the philosophy that, as consumers, we should be willing to pay a premium (200, 500, 1000 it doesn't matter) for basic decent treatment as a human and a customer. HOGWASH! We are not talking about negotiating down your shop labor rate here. (the cheap, fast or good take any 2 idea). We are talking about profit and overhead coverage. As a dealer, your values are YOUR values. They dictate how you treat people (all kinds, not just your customers). If you say that you can't "afford" to treat me right unless I pay for your (relatively higher) overhead, then I say you are fooling yourself so you can sleep at night. If you make an exception to your pricing to get and keep me as a customer, you will likely increase your overall volume (at least because I will spread you good name by word of mouth), which will allow you to spread your overhead across more deals, effectively lowering your profit "requirement" per deal (i.e per individual).
Third point. This web site is fantastic and dynamic!! These threads take on a life of thier own/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif. If you start a thread that gets controversial, people will respond to the ideas presented (by everyone), not to the person that presented them! In some cases, the originator of the thread can get a bit defensive. I think it would be better to view yourself as the catalyst, not the moderator. When a thread gets 3 pages long, the originator shouldn't feel like he has to respond to all of the comments. Maybe that will help some of us when we realize that we've opened up a can of worms.
Finally (I know, I said three, but I just thought of this). The people here are generally (if not always) courteous and polite, and I don't believe anyone is lying about their pricing (just a few dealers may be surprised at what other dealers really can do). Open and honest dialog about the issues, not the presenters of the issues, is what makes open societies great!
